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Victor Manuel Fernandez Patiño
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

In fact, let's have the government take EVERYBODY'S money, and give each of us an allowance of just enough to feed ourselves. And the government can decide how much food we REALLY need.

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That is exactly what the new Mexican government is doing, giving money, creating "scholarships" to make people dependent on their gifts and forcing them to vote for them again in the following elections, but ... has not raised taxes; the president says that avoiding corruption will save enough money to continue giving away money. In the meantime, he keeps repeating to people who live in poverty that it is because of the rich people that they are in that condition.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

If they haven't raised taxes, it doesn't sound exactly the same as taking everybody's money.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 4:21pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Mr. Byrne - the perfect form of Communism. From each according to their abilities; to each according to their needs.

I think that this is a very reasonable system - until we get humans involved in running it. Because human greed will always foul that system up.

Democracy - still the worst political system on the planet, except for all the OTHER political systems!
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

In China, if you show ability, you get more work piled on you. People learn very quickly not to show ability since they will be forced to do more in order to support their less-than-capable comrades.

Communism is in no way reasonable. It is a fundamentatly evil system and has proven this over and over again. Communism works great for ants. Humans are not ants.


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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Bloomberg strikes me as fairly shady sometimes - running in 2001 on the Republican ticket so he would run uncontested in the primaries, then getting term limits extended when his second term was up. This seems to be more of the same....waiting out the usual primary process until he stands a clearer chance of victory. None of this is illegal, but definitely rubs me the wrong way.
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 Neil Lindholm wrote:
In China, if you show ability, you get more work piled on you. People learn very quickly not to show ability since they will be forced to do more in order to support their less-than-capable comrades.


That's hardly unique to China. I've worked in plenty of office environments where the reward for good work was more work and it seemed like others were coasting by on minimal effort.


 QUOTE:
Communism is in no way reasonable. It is a fundamentally evil system and has proven this over and over again. Communism works great for ants. Humans are not ants.


Has true communism ever really been tried? As soon as you put someone in charge, you're not really following the concept ("first among equals," my ass...). In that regard, I consider such a system fundamentally unworkable on a large scale (or for a long time) rather than "evil."

You get a few thousand like-minded individuals with complementary skill sets and a willingness to fulfill roles based on "society's needs," in an area with sufficient resources to keep you going, you can probably put together a small communist nation where everyone would reasonably thrive. But you go a few generations later where the highly skilled people are starting to feel they deserve more than the lower skilled people and no one wants to be the garbage man and it all starts to fall apart.
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Has true Fascism ever been tried? What about true Nazism? Any ideology that takes power from the individual and turns it over to the collective is fundamentally flawed, regardless of its original intentions and as soon as a strongman shows up, they now have all this power. 

If someone chooses not to live in a communist or socialist society, the only thing that can be done with that individual is to kill or imprison or banish them. In a purely Capitalist society, if you choose not to follow its ideals, go right ahead. You will get hungry pretty soon but nobody will stop you. Which one is more moral? I get sad when I read that young people are embracing the ideas of socialism and communism. Hopefully they will grow out of it. 
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply


 QUOTE:
You get a few thousand like-minded individuals with complementary skill sets and a willingness to fulfill roles based on "society's needs," in an area with sufficient resources to keep you going, you can probably put together a small communist nation where everyone would reasonably thrive.

If you choose to live like this, fantastic. If no force is involved, go for it. Ironically, this would only work in a purely capitalistic society. 
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

 Neil Lindholm wrote:
Any ideology that takes power from the individual and turns it over to the collective is fundamentally flawed, regardless of its original intentions and as soon as a strongman shows up, they now have all this power


If you'd said "flawed" instead of "evil" in the first place, we wouldn't be having this conversation. :-)

Pure capitalism fosters a competitive environment, which leads to winners and losers. Great for the winners, but what happens to the losers? And what's more, you have a competitive environment where the playing field simply isn't level. Trying to answer the former question and deal with the latter situation is what's causing people to "embrace the ideas of socialism and communism."

Political systems aren't inherently moral or immoral. It's all about the people in them and if they use the system for the betterment of all (which would include themselves) or solely for the betterment of themselves and to hell with the rest.
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

 Neil Lindholm wrote:
If you choose to live like this, fantastic. If no force is involved, go for it. Ironically, this would only work in a purely capitalistic society.


Hey, I never said I wanted to go that route. :-)

But I don't understand where capitalism comes into play in this scenario? In the scenario, everyone performs a task and shares the results of their labor. Farmers raise crops for everyone, plumbers handle plumbing, whatever. How do private property and competitive markets factor in?
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Many ideologies are fundamentally flawed but communism and its close, close neighbour fascism, are fundamentally evil. Over a 100 million of their victims would agree. 
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 08 November 2019 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Try doing that inside a communist or socialist system, or even a hybrid system like the west has. It would be shut down, either with tanks and rifles or with paperwork and bureaucracy. Only a purely capitalistic country would allow something like that inside its borders. If it doesn’t affect someone else who chooses not to participate, go for it. 
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