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Topic: Should Influential latter creators Get Co-Creator Credit? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 05 December 2019 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Not sure how many times I can say this: creation happens only once. Beyond that is extrapolation, however creative it might be.
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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 05 December 2019 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The only thing Harry Osborn going on was his dad's previous weaponry and a drug-induced lunacy.

=====================================================

Let's also note that Peter / Spider-Man never fully went at it against Harry because he didn't want to hurt him. 
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 05 December 2019 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Care to elaborate? Which bit do you not see as act of creation?

One: the toy as shown which existed in 1982. Had nothing further ever happened that toy would still exist and therefore had to be created.

Two: Denny O'Neil names it Optimus Prime, creating a further identity to the already existing creation.

_________________________________


That's called a "revamp" and "development".
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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 05 December 2019 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

It's like ROM going from a toy with one line in that toy series to its comic book form.

The toy was created by Scott Dankman, Richard C. Levy, and Bryan L. McCoy.

All Bill Mantlo and Sal Buscema did with that toy concept was take it and build an origin, character, villains, supporting cast and stories around it. They didn't create ROM.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 05 December 2019 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

One: the toy as shown which existed in 1982. Had nothing further ever happened that toy would still exist and therefore had to be created.

Two: Denny O'Neil names it Optimus Prime, creating a further identity to the already existing creation.

************

Look at the last three words you typed. "ALREADY EXISTING CREATION." If it already exists, how can it be created again?
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 05 December 2019 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

JB wrote: "Roger Stern decided Jen enjoyed being She-Hulk. That’s what got me interested."

That element of Jen's personality was in place since the later days of her original comic written by David Anthony Kraft.


When she re-appeared a few short months later in Dazzler 14, written by Danny Fingeroth, it was her defining characteristic. 


She-Hulk turned up again in MTIO 88, a fun Kraft-written adventure which introduced her pink caddy and went straight through with no mention of her Jennifer Walters identity at all. She joined the Avengers the next month in issue 221, green and happy to be that way, in a story plotted by Jim Shooter and written by David Michelinie. Stern didn't start writing the book with Jen until 227.


Edited by Brian Hague on 06 December 2019 at 2:32am
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 06 December 2019 at 12:58am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

It's like ROM going from a toy with one line in that toy series to its comic book form.

The toy was created by Scott Dankman, Richard C. Levy, and Bryan L. McCoy.

All Bill Mantlo and Sal Buscema did with that toy concept was take it and build an origin, character, villains, supporting cast and stories around it. They didn't create ROM.

-----

So did Ferdinand Porsche create "Herbie the Love Bug"? I'm not trying to be glib here. But Herbie is just a Volkswagen Beetle come to life with a personality, and if that is not a creation, who created Herbie?

The same argument can be made for Diaclone/Transformers. They were made in the Wild West days of toy IP, and many of the G1 toys are unlicensed uses of real-world car designs. Battle Convoy/Optimus Prime's alt-mode is a Freightliner cab truck. A real-world truck that is an existing creation. If coming up with a new name and backstory of good and evil sentient robots for the Diaclone Battle Convoy toy (I believe the Diaclone vehicles were intended to be piloted mecha) does not count as creation, would figuring out how to turn an existing truck design into a toy robot not count either?

Is Yutaka Katayama, the creator of the Nissan Z, the creator of the Transformers Smokescreen, Prowl and Bluestreak? Is Ferdinand Porsche the creator of Herbie the Love Bug and Bumblebee? Neither seems correct intellectually, but I'm not sure what other conclusion to draw based on the current arguments.

Again, not trying to be glib or clever, just trying to understand where and how the lines are drawn.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 December 2019 at 3:33am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Let’s pretend that’s true.

Herbie began in somebody’s head with the question “What if a VW Beetle was alive?” No pre-existing Beetle, no Herbie.

Bumblebee has had many forms, of which one is a VW Beetle. No Beetle, we still have Bumblebee.

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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 06 December 2019 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

If the VW Beetle never existed the person who came up with the basic idea for a car that was alive named "Herbie" could have simply just used another type of car for the story.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 December 2019 at 4:52am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I wonder. Off the top of my head I cannot think of another automobile, foreign or domestic, that has been invested with so much “personality” by the public.

1967 TV Ad

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