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Topic: Greta Thunberg is TIME’s “Person of the Year” Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

James, I appreciate your passion, and you are right in saying that we should be doing more for the environment.

But to pick up on one of your examples, I've never seen this "image of a whale with a piece of plastic in its mouth", and when I google it, I come up with multiple images of what's been proven to be a fake - an art installation that people have disseminated as being real.

Which I think demonstrates that within environmentalist circles, people think these things are having a tremendous impact. But in the real world, they're often misconstrued, or worse, totally ignored.

The biggest problem with Greta Thunberg is that the messenger is now more important than the message. And I don't support that.

This is what I think the converted don't understand about those who are on the fence or in the denier camp (I'm neither by the way, I accept man-made climate change) - Greta does more to force people away from the truth than you can imagine. If you were a "climate denier" before, having a snotty over-privileged kid yelling "How dare you!" at you will not convince you to change, likely the opposite. It may pull at your heartstrings, but for many, it evokes anywhere from amusement to anger.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

This is what I think the converted don't understand about those who are on the fence or in the denier camp (I'm neither by the way, I accept man-made climate change) - Greta does more to force people away from the truth than you can imagine. If you were a "climate denier" before, having a snotty over-privileged kid yelling "How dare you!" at you will not convince you to change, likely the opposite. It may pull at your heartstrings, but for many, it evokes anywhere from amusement to anger.

•••

Very Republican.

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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Michael R: "It's not really about being a baby boomer, and it's not name calling."

Grouping someone because their birth year isn't name calling? Then pardon my misunderstanding.

"It's checking the attitude of the generations that are largely responsible for creating the problems thinking they know better than and dismissing the younger generations who have to deal with the fallout."

I believe you're grouping older people together because of when they were born. I will not and cannot dismiss your consideration that a lot of Baby Boomers (which I AM) are responsible for deadly issues against our environment, against our society, against older people, etc. On the other hand, some are also more experienced, and use our age to benefit instead of selfish actions. But the difference can't be associated to age.

"You are not expressing concerns regarding the maturity of a 16 year old. You are dismissing her outright because of her age."

I'm not sure I see that. Teenagers are about as a consistent a group as sixty year olds. I will note that it does seem that a lot of younger people are beginning to realize that they will die before they reach adulthood if things go on as they are - and the evidence is more pronounced than ever. They also see school shooters becoming more and more prevalent. In every generation, there seems to be some deadly threat to the next group of near-adults.

This generation seems to be more aware of it, and sensitive to it - and t seems that older generations are supporting them than ever.

I'd like to refer to Ms. Thunberg as first among equals in the group that are fighting for their lives. Some of them are brilliant, some are eminently aware of threats to their population, some KNOW that they alone will not be able to defend themselves, and need the assistance of every generation.

Some kids are also as dumb as they've ever been - smoking, drinking and driving, abusing the other gender sexually (if not physically.)

But a section of today's next-adults see the truth, try to expose it, and try to save themselves, and us as well. Discerning the wise and smart from the fakers and takers is the hard job - which our experience should help with.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I have to admit, even though she visited here personally, I have barely followed Miss Thunberg's media blitz. As someone who has criticized the science supporting Koko the Gorilla (who also supposedly had these great statements on the environment, come on) or Timothy Leary's and The Dalai Llama's wise pronouncements, I say fire away, but I don't think Trump was bringing any real intelligent criticism to his bizarre attacks on her as a person. I can think of a lot of bad persons of the year who have had a negative effect for 2019, I think Greta has been overall someone more positive to focus on however lacking in depth. Personally I've paid more attention to local beach plastic clean-up surfer-organizers... we have a crisis of lack of oxygen zones in the water too as well as our plastics which many self-congratulatingly thought were being somehow recycled when they were not.

Word to Donald...

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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Here's a dead whale story that had 88 pounds of plastic inside from the Phillipines, was it planted? New York Times is about as good a source as there is, unless you're Trump or one of his most blind followers...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/18/world/asia/whale-plastics -philippines.html

"A dead whale was found in the Philippines on Saturday with 88 pounds of plastic bags and other disposable plastic products in its stomach. The Philippines is the world’s third-biggest contributor of plastic to oceans."

Again, I feel my duty to point out that most of the Phillipines "contribution" to pollution was shipped to it from other nations, and that often aid is tied in with them taking such waste.

And another that made the NY Times less than a month later...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/02/world/europe/plastic-whal e-dead-italy.html


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 13 December 2019 at 7:03pm
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Koroush, you need to look up The Blue Planet II, a programme by the BBC. That’s the footage I was talking about. Most certainly not fake. Has had a massive impact in the U.K. & elsewhere with regards to single use plastics.
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 7:40pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Greta isn't telling us anything we haven't known for decades. Her point is: why haven't we done anything?

I think the reaction by certain people fits the adage: adults don't like it when kids tell they they're wrong. And they hate it when kids prove they are wrong!
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

"OK Boomer" is an ongoing meme used whenever young people want to express disdain for the boring shit old people say, like... dismissing an entire segment of the population outright based on age. Something an old fart would do. It's a more annoying form of an eyeroll because it seems to indicate one is listening to the toothless codger and his unimaginative pronouncements, when in fact, he's being actively dismissed. "OK Boomer." Whatever. It's a thing the kids are into these days. 


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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 13 December 2019 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I think the reaction by certain people fits the adage: adults don't like it when kids tell they they're wrong. And they hate it when kids prove they are wrong!

****

Well, as an older person, I applaud Greta Thunberg and any other intelligent, decent, compassionate teen who cares about about climate change. It's THEIR future and I'm glad to know she's dedicated this cause. Glad to see such passion from today's youth. These ol' crusty, corrupt men in our government need to get out!

-C!
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 14 December 2019 at 2:00am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

 Koroush Ghazi wrote:
 The biggest problem with Greta Thunberg is that the messenger is now more important than the message. And I don't support that.

Good on ya.  You've expressed your opinion.  You've singlehandedly dismissed her because of her age (not her fault) as well as the popularity she's achieved (also not her fault).  You seemingly don't support either and actually call her the "anti-Trump".  

I feel like I'm living in the fucking Upside Down.  

Why, why, WHY knock down someone who is bringing light to an issue, even in a way you don't necessarily approve? That it doesn't resonate with you, you therefore feel emboldened enough to presume it resonates with no one?  That the benchmark for her success should be calculated in how many minutes it takes people to change their minds and that if we don't see substantive change within, say, a calendar year then it's all about the messenger rather than the message?  

Seriously?  

I like much of what you have to say, Koroush, but I think you are so far off base here that it's actually shocking.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 14 December 2019 at 2:18am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I'm sorry but you have to be a very strange person to hate on a 16 year old girl with an environmentalist message and whose trajectory was totally organic.

She never meant to be "famous", and there's no conspiracy to get her message across. Again, as with flat earthers, qui bono? The big corporations and the current US government attacking her/the movement I can understand because they're defending massive economical interests, but regular folk? It makes no sense.

It's climate change deniers all over again, but it's getting harder and harder to stand by that position because science. And if this girl is getting the message across that's great, and the scientific community (who completely know their stuff and share Thunberg's position) seems to understand it in the same way without feeling the need to question the fact that's she's 16 years old, swede, privileged, or in need to see a movie with friends.




Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 14 December 2019 at 2:34am
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 14 December 2019 at 2:40am | IP Logged | 12 post reply


 QUOTE:
Grouping someone because their birth year isn't name calling? Then pardon my misunderstanding.


 QUOTE:
a lot of Baby Boomers (which I AM)

Pick a lane!


 QUOTE:
I believe you're grouping older people together because of when they were born.

Nope. That would be social scientists who classify different generations by their birth years.



 QUOTE:
I will not and cannot dismiss your consideration that a lot of Baby Boomers (which I AM) are responsible for deadly issues against our environment, against our society, against older people, etc. On the other hand, some are also more experienced, and use our age to benefit instead of selfish actions. But the difference can't be associated to age.

Saying that the Baby Boom Generation is responsible for much of the current state of affairs is not the same thing as saying a lot of Baby Boomers are individually responsible for the current state of affairs. You are trying way too hard to be offended here. If I state "America inflicted Trump upon world politics", someone saying, "Well no, most Americans didn't vote for Trump" doesn't really invalidate the statement. Synecdoche, it's a thing.
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