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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
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| Posted: 17 January 2020 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 1
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One of those "reviews" that, along with the comments, makes me wonder if any of these people actually read the book. Or read the same book.LINK And, hey, everyone! We're twenty years into the 21st Century. Can we stop calling anything with even a whisper of humor in it "campy"?
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David Farley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 600
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| Posted: 17 January 2020 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 2
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Review not withstanding, One of my favorites. Thanks JB.
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10924
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| Posted: 17 January 2020 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 3
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I think most people appreciate the book for how pitch perfect it gets Batman
and Captain America for this vintage. It is an amazing book - one of my
favorites of all time.
I can understand a civilian misunderstanding the tone of a Batman story when
he is depicted in this fashion. The TV show was so broad that it impacted how
people saw the character for years - they see him as "camp." His modern
interpretation is the Dark Knight, and he can be depicted in a way that is so
dark that he loses all the fun. A civilian may go into this book with a lot of
baggage and interpret it as campier than it is intended. Although I am having a
hard time seeing how this particular story could be misinterpreted - it's one of
those rare stories that gets everything right in character, tone, and storytelling.
Maybe "civilians" is the wrong term for some of these comments, as they seem
to know the characters. Maybe they aren't hardcore fans, but they know the
characters. What would be the term for a casual reader? "Fan Adjacent?"
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1646
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| Posted: 17 January 2020 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 4
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"Hit and run reviewer"?
Art is largely subjective. The problem is where subjectivity meets an inability to elaborate an opinion. I'm sure if some of the people using the term "camp" as praise knew what it really meant, they wouldn't be applying it to Batman & Captain America. A fun retro-homage adventure. But not camp. Similar to what Tim says, I think the word camp is sadly a word that has stuck with Batman, and comics in general, since the '60s TV show. It's the go-to word when people struggle to find the word fun.
Same for others trying to criticise the book using the term camp. The Red Skull isn't campy in this book, perhaps grandiose or even melodramatic at times, but that was the style of the day. Even then, I'm probably not describing it right either.
Fortunately, there are enough places to see a sample of the book and judge the style for yourself before buying, rather than taking anyone else's word for it. But trust me, it's good ;)
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Nathan Greno
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 17 January 2020 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | 5
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I'm a HUGE fan of BAT/CAP! Easily one of my TOP 5 favorite JB comics ever.
BTW As I type this, I'm sitting in my office, looking at --
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
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| Posted: 18 January 2020 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 6
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How mightily I struggled coming up with my version of the Batplane!See, back in the Forties, it was drawn without a propellor, and even allowing that Batman's tech was "advanced", there was no indication that it was a jet, either. It seemed almost as if the artists, having that big bat head where the prop should be, sort of shrugged and said "Maybe no one will notice!" Well, I noticed, and, inaccurate tho it was, I had to add the wing nacelles. Fortunately, no one complained.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
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| Posted: 18 January 2020 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 7
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Maybe "civilians" is the wrong term for some of these comments, as they seem to know the characters. Maybe they aren't hardcore fans, but they know the characters. What would be the term for a casual reader? "Fan Adjacent?"•• I would suspect these ARE hardcore fans, in the worst sense. They know what they know and will accept nothing that seems to stray outside those narrow parameters.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
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| Posted: 18 January 2020 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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To far too many, the blue-costumed Batman with the short ears is Adam West. Before the show, after the show, whatever, it doesn't matter. That look clearly denotes that DC is doing what is properly referred to these days as "Batman '66."*
So, the Batman there in that picture? Batman '66. And the one thing we ALWAYS know about Batman '66 is that he is campy. Always campy.
* See also "yacht rock."
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 18 January 2020 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 9
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Curiously enough, the costume department of the Adam West BATMAN actually made an attempt at putting the character of n the colors he wore in earlier days, rather than the bright blue that had evolved.
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 18 January 2020 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 10
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One little thing about that story that I really like: Cap has a real-world-ish square jaw, while Batman has a cartoonish square jaw, just as Dick Sprang (and Jerry Robinson?) drew him.
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Eric Smearman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5798
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| Posted: 18 January 2020 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | 11
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Funny you mention (parenthetically) Jerry Robinson, Adam,
'cause, in this book, JB's Batman totally reminds me of
that artist's version. Might be a little projection on my
part as Robinson is my favorite Golden Age Batman artist.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35722
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| Posted: 19 January 2020 at 1:59am | IP Logged | 12
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My first two pages of original JB art came from Bat/Cap:
They were on Jim's site for years. I loved them because they told an entire (short) story. I debated with myself for a long time and finally pulled the trigger a long time ago and they've held a special place in the MattCave ever since. Although they feature neither Bat nor Cap, I love the Joker and certainly the "ha, ha, ha" that have come to represent him. These two pages are pitch perfect to me.
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