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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4506
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Posted: 21 February 2020 at 9:55am | IP Logged | 1
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And let's not forget the non-college educated White voters that think they are capitalists because the US economy is capitalist. The ones that think the stock market gains are beneficial to them when they don't own stock. The ones that don't see bailing out farmers as a socialist program, etc. etc. etc. A HUGE problem in the US is ignorance and and there are lots of White voters with a healthy dose of it.
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3487
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Posted: 21 February 2020 at 10:15am | IP Logged | 2
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Bernie has been out-polling Trump in Texas for a little while. Trump's campaign has come out and said that if Bernie gets the nomination, it completely changes the electoral map in terms of what states they will need to compete in.
And again, the number of votes in Wisconsin by which Hilary lost the state is the smaller than the number of people who voted, but left the President area blank.
Trump got fewer votes, including in most of the states he won, than Romney did in 2016.
Bernie doesn't need a single Republican vote to win. He doesn't need to convert a single Trump voter (though the polls show there was a chunk of Bernie support from the 2016 primaries that voted Trump int he general). All he needs is to turn out the traditional Democratic base and he wins.
Democrats win high turnout elections. Republicans win low turnout elections. The Democrat with the best chance of beating Trump is absolutely the one who is best able to turn out the vote. Nobody on that stage has a fired up following and motivates the Democratic base like Sanders. Hell, no other candidate on that stage could probably even get Bernie's current voters to the polls, let alone disaffected non-voters and new voters. Nobody's excited to go vote for Klobuchar or Buttigieg. They appeal to an established slice of the Democratic base. And a slice won't cut it as Hilary proves.
Plus, if Barr decides that there were 'election irregularities' and Trump decides he doesn't want to leave, do you really think anybody's supporters other than Bernie's are going to take to the streets?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132134
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Posted: 21 February 2020 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 3
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Plus, if Barr decides that there were 'election irregularities' and Trump decides he doesn't want to leave, do you really think anybody's supporters other than Bernie's are going to take to the streets? ••• That question makes no sense.
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David Allen Perrin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2009 Location: United States Posts: 3511
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Posted: 21 February 2020 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 4
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It does if you believe Trump will defy the election results if he loses. And I believe he may.
On that day it will be time to turn off the computers...and head to DC.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132134
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Posted: 21 February 2020 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 5
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Still makes no sense—unless you’re saying non-Sanders supporters are all sheep.
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Brad Wilders Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2008 Posts: 173
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Posted: 21 February 2020 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 6
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Trump got fewer votes, including in most of the states he won, than Romney did in 2016.
***
It is dangerously reductive to believe that correcting any one of the issues that cost Clinton the election guarantees a win his time around because not all else will be held equal.
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Jonathan A. Dowdell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 July 2016 Location: United States Posts: 416
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Posted: 21 February 2020 at 11:29am | IP Logged | 7
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All American's are the beneficiaries of "socialism." They may not understand it but socialism is the great evil that strives to deliver consistent economic performance for our country and its people. Whether it is transfer payments to the poor, the farmers, the retired, corporations, it is all designed to keep the economy growing and limit the pain to the dispossessed and those at the bottom.
Can a self described "socialist" be elected president, I doubt it. It seems in modern history when a political party has moved to their ideological fringe that candidate has lost. I hope in 2020 we elect a new president but I am not sure Sanders (if he is the party nominee) can do it.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12406
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Posted: 21 February 2020 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | 8
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NYT Op-Ed on the Obama-to-Trump voters:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/06/opinion/obam a-trump-voters.html
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3487
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Posted: 21 February 2020 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | 9
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The other very possible scenario, the one that unfortunately I think is most likely at this point, is that Bernie goes to the convention with the most votes from the primary process and even the most delegates, but less than 50% of those delegates. At which point, someone like Bloomberg is given the nomination in the second round of voting.
This is perfectly within the established rules for the DNC. It will also guarantee that a massive portion of the party who was supporting Bernie will stay home for the general. It will guarantee a Trump win.
In 2016, going into the convention, Hilary had more than a million more votes in the primary process than Bernie. Fair enough, she got the nomination. But his supporters stayed home. Imagine if this time, Bernie is in the lead, and the nomination goes to the third or fourth-runner from the primaries.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 35693
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Posted: 22 February 2020 at 2:48am | IP Logged | 10
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Everyone has got to get over themselves (preface: this is in the general, not specific to anyone in this thread). People like Susan Sarandon, an avowed Sanders supporter, who either didn't vote or cast their vote for an independent in 2016 in protest can, I'm sorry, go f**k themselves. Just look at what a severely unhinged Trump has done in the weeks after being exonerated by the Senate on impeachment. The laundry list is massive and, quite frankly, frightening. It's certainly unprecedented since Nixon and, I'd hazard a guess, even worse.
Anyone who dislikes the way Trump runs government who is put off by the mild socialism (at best) of Sanders enough to sway a vote to Trump or not vote at all needs to check themselves. As I've read elsewhere, I'd vote for the ghost of Nixon if it were put up against Trump, that's how badly he need not be running this country.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132134
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Posted: 22 February 2020 at 6:53am | IP Logged | 11
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People like Susan Sarandon, an avowed Sanders supporter, who either didn't vote or cast their vote for an independent in 2016 in protest can, I'm sorry, go f**k themselves.•• Ms Sarandon probably voted in New York or California, which means her vote was scrubbed by the Electoral College.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15729
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Posted: 22 February 2020 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 12
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Trump received over 2 million more votes than Romney (and the highest number of votes of any Republican presidential candidate ever), while Clinton received just .1% less votes than Obama did in 2012 ------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
Absolute number of votes or percentage of votes -- make your choice.
The US population grows with time, which is the biggest reason why Trump got more votes than any Republican candidate. Similarly, Clinton got more votes than anyone in history not called Barack Obama.
Mitt Romney got millions of votes more than Ronald Reagan. The absolute numbers don't mean a great deal outside the actual election being contested.
Edited by Peter Martin on 22 February 2020 at 7:48pm
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