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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 April 2020 at 6:44am | IP Logged | 1
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Why had Dave Cockrum fallen so out of favour with TPTB by the mid-90's? ••• TPTW listened to the grumblings of the DSM. “His stuff doesn’t sell.” Otherwise known as a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
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| Posted: 08 April 2020 at 7:03am | IP Logged | 2
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TPTW listened to the grumblings of the DSM. “His stuff doesn’t sell.”
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This is why guys like Herb Trimpe tried changing their style to reflect the likes of the Image boys. Which, in hindsight, is a sad state of affairs for them to have to do.
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Ben Herman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 113
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| Posted: 08 April 2020 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 3
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John Byrne: TPTW listened to the grumblings of the DSM.
…..
I'm sorry, but what does DSM stand for?
Whatever the case, I totally agree that it was extremely disheartening to see so many great Bronze Age artists who were still drawing very well having difficulty finding work in the 1990s.
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Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5458
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| Posted: 08 April 2020 at 7:29am | IP Logged | 4
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DSM= Direct Sales Market
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Gundars Berzins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1559
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| Posted: 08 April 2020 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 5
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Love your Wonder Woman run JB. I remember what a great surprise it was to see issue 101 on the rack. When I stepped up to the register, the store owner was glad to see I had a copy. He didn't want me to miss it knowing I was a fan. Such different times then.
As for Dave Cockrum, he was the reason I stayed with the X-Men after you left.
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James Best
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 March 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 878
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| Posted: 08 April 2020 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 6
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In hindsight, I consider myself to be extremely lucky that I read and enjoyed WONDER WOMAN when first Mr. Perez and later Mr. Byrne were in charge of both the writing and artwork.
Princess Diana was in superb hands and I looked forward every month to heading down to my local comic shop to grab the latest issue. Alas, the impact of the DSM and the changes to the industry made me give up my comic collecting almost ten years ago. But King George and JB's respective runs on WONDER WOMAN are examples of what made my comic reading days so memorable, and so difficult to duplicate in modern times.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 08 April 2020 at 5:14pm | IP Logged | 7
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I'd say that the Wonder Woman title from 1987 - 2006 benefitted from having fairly stable writing teams through its entirety.
Bar a few fill in here and there it works out:
- George Perez - #'s 1 - 62
- William Messner-Loebs - #'s 63 - 87, 90 - 100
- John Byrne - #'s - 101 - 136
- Eric Luke - #'s - 139 - 152, 156 - 159
- Phil Jiminez - #'s - 164 - 188
- Greg Rucka - #'s - 195 - 226
6 long term writers on a 20 year old title is not a bad ratio, and I think that is what it gave it its consistence and quality.
I think maybe only the 1987 Flash series could be comparable over its 1987 - 2006 run in terms of number of writers.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 08 April 2020 at 6:22pm | IP Logged | 8
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Greg M: TANGENT: Fantastic Four and Justice League of America also did pretty well on number of writers - two spans of FF and 1 of JLA with over 100 issues and only one writer for each if my memory serves.
Of course, adding Wonder Woman is legit too - for 226 issues, that is a remarkably short number of writers! (And you might even include the writers of the annuals to increase their numbers some.)
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
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| Posted: 08 April 2020 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 9
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Eric, just as another slight thread drift, and then I'll get it back to Wonder Woman, but the Superman titles from 1986 - 1999 were consistent with writers. In the cases of Ordway, Stern, Jurgens, Kesel and Simonson their stints were all 6 - 10 years.
If you look at the 2 years JB was on the titles, he did (including related mini series and core titles) 67 issues. 5 1/2 years worth of material.
- Action Comics - John Byrne (86 - 88), Roger Stern (88 - 94), David Michelinie (94 -97), Stuart Immonen (97 - 99)
- Adventures of Superman - Marv Wolfman (86 - 87), John Byrne (87 - 88), Jerry Ordway (87 - 89, 91 - 93, 98 -99), Dan Jurgens (89 - 91), Karl Kesel (93 - 99)
- Superman - John Byrne (86 - 88), Roger Stern (88 - 89), Jerry Ordway (89 - 91), Dan Jurgens (91 - 99)
- Superman: TMOS - Louise Simonson (91 - 99)
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Ben Herman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2020
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| Posted: 08 April 2020 at 8:06pm | IP Logged | 10
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Just went to the GCD. Wonder Woman vol 2 had eight annuals between 1988 and 1999. Two of them were written by George Perez, one of them was written by William Messner-Loebs, two of them were written by John Byrne, and one of them was written by Eric Luke. So that's six out of eight annuals that were done by the series' regular writers, which no doubt added to the creative consistency.
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 08 April 2020 at 9:52pm | IP Logged | 11
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Roger Stern and Jerry Ordway did really, really good work on Superman and Adventures of Superman, especially before the "triangle years." I wish it would all be collected in TPBs.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
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| Posted: 09 April 2020 at 2:24am | IP Logged | 12
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Roger Stern and Jerry Ordway did really, really good work on Superman and Adventures of Superman, especially before the "triangle years." I wish it would all be collected in TPBs.
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Post-Wolfman and Byrne, Roger Stern was the only writer who seemed to get and utilise Lex Luthor correctly.
Jurgens and Ordway tended to concentrate on other villains which worked equally as well.
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