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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 1:54am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Was there video or witnesses to the Zimmerman case? If not, it is pretty hard to prove that Zimmerman was not telling the truth. With the video of George Floyd, they will have a hard time acquitting but it has happened before. 
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John Wickett
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 9:45am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

No eye witnesses.  

There was a person who called 911 because they heard screaming, and someone could be heard yelling "help" before the gunshot on an audio recording of the 911 call.  Multiple witnesses testified the voice of the person who was screaming was Zimmerman.  Martin's father testified that it was not Martin's voice.

Zimmerman's story was that he began following Martin, and that Martin turned and attacked him.  According to Zimmerman, Martin was on top of him, repeatedly slamming the back of Zimmerman's head into the concrete.  Zimmerman said that he feared for his life, pulled his gun, and shot Martin at near point blank range.  

Expert witnesses testified that Zimmerman's injuries were consistent with his story.  Also, gunshot residue and forensic evidence showed that Martin's injuries were consistent with Zimmerman's story.  And physical evidence from the crime scene also favored Zimmerman.

Originally Zimmerman was not charged because the DA did not feel they could prove that Zimmerman didn't shoot Martin in self defense.  In response to widespread protests, a special prosecutor was appointed to investigate the case, and ultimately Zimmerman was charged with 2nd degree murder, but it was a weak case.

In fact, it was such a weak case that CNN's panel of legal experts unanimously predicted an aquittal, and Chrisopher Darden, the African American prosecutor who prosecuted OJ Simpson stated "Just about everything the prosecution has asserted in this case has been addressed by the defense and refuted.  You have to wonder if you're a juror sitting on this case, why was this prosecution brought in the first place?...There are just huge, huge holes in the prosecution's case."

So big differences between the George Floyd case and the Martin case.  

The Martin verdict stings because the confrontation would not have happened if Zimmerman hadn't racially profiled Martin, and started following him (against police instructions) in the first place.  But legally, it was the correct decision.  Zimmerman did not commit a crime by following Martin.  If Zimmerman was the one who started the physical altercation, you could convict him, but there is simply no evidence to prove that is what happened, because there were no witnesses. 
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 11:35am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Ugh. :^(

There were discrepancies with Zimmerman's minor 'head wounds'. That whole trial and how the state of Florida treated the case was almost Emmett Till level with a vigilante taking care of his own b.s. laid on so thick and sick. Trayvon Martin was unarmed other than that sidewalk b.s. and Zimmerman was directly told not to follow him further so no standing his ground involved unless you believe some crazy story beyond someone asking him why he was following them. But hey, enjoy your off the rails U.S. justice system with judges urging folks to go get rearmed after committing murder protecting their gated community from the dark skins they psychically know are thinking of crime.

And I don't see why anything about Floyd has any bearing on what happened to him other than he was the subject of a call for a possible minor fraud. Can police legally kill a suspect now if they have ever used drugs or had any other character flaws? It is entirely irrelevant. If Chauvin wants to try and illustrate his own good character he's entitled to that, he's on trial, his victim should not be anymore than Trayvon Martin ever should have been who was where he was supposed to be doing nothing wrong but talking on cell phone and ducking out of the rain (lurking). Off the rails. Or is someone going to say how wonderfully 'great' everything has been going and how all the black lives matter people are just whining or being political?

Fubar. This Minnesota trial is becoming disgusting at what they are foolishly allowing despite numerous videos which ought to make determining what happened very obvious, and I am honestly sad for the country.
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Craig Earl
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I'm certainly uncomfortable with the image of Floyd as some kind of messiah but he died in a way that no one should. The act of his death must be treated in isolation because there is absolutely no justification for the way that he met his end. 




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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Make no mistake, it's the emotional and character testimonies of all sorts I find out of place in these trials. Maybe people enjoy a 'show' but justice should be something else.

Zimmerman having to be proven deranged or evil, or the victim an angel/messiah, sound like something from a bad comic book not a set of law books. That whole situation was bizarre with the excesses of the prosecution (distributing childhood photos) and black panther threats merely being used to justify extremes in the other direction, all started from an extreme person deputizing themselves with a big chip about the kind of people who don't belong (young blacks) behind crime in a gated community.

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 31 March 2021 at 11:51am
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John Wickett
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

"Zimmerman was directly told not to follow him further so no standing his ground involved"

Not the case.  Simply following someone is not an act of violence.  Zimmerman's story was that Martin physically attacked him, climbed on top of him, and started smashing his head into the concrete.  If that is what happened, then Zimmerman was allowed to defend himself.  

You may not believe Zimmerman's account, and you are certainly entitled to that opinion.  The issue is whether you can prove he was lying, and prosecutors couldn't.  They had no evidence.

George Floyd's case is completely different.  There is an abundance of evidence; the video tape, numerous eye witnesses, medical evidence, etc.   

"And I don't see why anything about Floyd has any bearing on what happened to him"  

It has nothing to do with whether the officers' actions were justified.  It may be relevant to the question of Chauvin's motive.  Clearly, there is nothing on the tape that suggests Floyd was a threat to the officers.  However, if Chauvin perceived Floyd as a threat because of things he already knew about Floyd's background as a result of their relationship with each other, then Chauvin's knowledge of Floyd could be relevant.  

That doesn't mean the defense will be allowed to assassinate Floyd's character.  A good judge will be very careful about what evidence they let in, and will balance the relevance of the evidence against the likelihood that it will prejudice the jury.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

But hey, enjoy your off the rails U.S. justice system with judges urging folks to go get rearmed after committing murder protecting their gated community from the dark skins they psychically know are thinking of crime.

———

As far as I know, second degree murder in Canada requires proving intent. Don’t act all high and mighty there. Also don’t act like Canada is any better with racism.

At least one of the jurors has stated that she thought that Zimmerman got away with murder, but she had to vote to acquit because the evidence wasn’t there. That’s how it should work, even though it can result in injustices. Otherwise, juries could decide that someone is guilty based on beliefs not in evidence (which probably happens), and this would also adversely affect POC.
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John Wickett
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Remember that Chauvin has been charged with second degree murder, third degree murder, and second degree manslaughter.  All of those charges arise from  a single event, which is the killing of Mr. Floyd.  The difference between the various charges is Chauvin's motive and state of mind when the killing occurred.  So we are going to see evidence that relates to what Chauvin was thinking when this happened.  
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

After George Floyd, Eric Garner, and others dying from police chokeholds and neck kneeling, there needs to be some sort of zero tolerance policy for cops who do this. As in `you're fired if you kneel on a neck for even a second' and `If you kneel on someone's neck and they die, you're going down for murder, and Heaven help you because you might as well plead guilty if there's camera footage.'

I know some, if not all, police officers have to fight their way out of a chokehold as part of their training (one of my aunts is a retired detective and had to do that when she was at the police academy). Maybe they also need to have their necks kneeled on until they tap out, as well, so they can see why the move shouldn't be used at all. 

And I hope to never hear George Zimmerman's name in the news again, unless its a situation that's bad for him (ie, convicted of a crime or dead). I do understand why he got away with it, but it doesn't make him any less guilty because he instigated the situation himself. And his actions post-trial more than proved that he's a world class waste of oyxgen.





Edited by Brian Floyd on 31 March 2021 at 12:06pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

So we are going to see evidence that relates to what Chauvin was thinking when this happened. 

———

Kneeling on someone’s neck for nine and a half minutes while bystanders freak out because they think he’s going to die speaks for itself. 
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Here victim impact statements come at the end and are not part of the trial.

In most modern countries a self-appointed community guardian would have gone to prison from following someone and at very least provoking a confrontation, and he was advised to desist his activities and leave it to the real police while doing so. Martin being black is what decided Zimmerman that he was up to something. They even personally went after his female friend on the phone's character which was particularly low and disgusting, commenting on her appearance and weight in attempting to undermine her witness testimony, all of which should have been nowhere near a court trial.

To defend such debacles of 'justice' as normal procedure or not fubar is why things are where they are. The quality of presiding judges is often predicated on which group or mob appoints them... and one unaddressed very poor performance along with police officers does tend to affect the whole profession over time. The whole point of To Kill A Mockingbird was to illustrate how a proper lawyer operates and how an improper courthouse likewise does, as well as unveiling how the boogeyman might just be a very timid Robert Duvall. Taught in schools but still not sinking in with those who would need to hear it.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 31 March 2021 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply


 QUOTE:
As far as I know, second degree murder in Canada requires proving intent. Don’t act all high and mighty there. Also don’t act like Canada is any better with racism.

We're (so far) better at not having these kinds of media event show trials that are almost circus like, but even the Canadian news covers these 'things' from the U.S. It gets hard to find actual news when these drama events are playing out. The U.S. even with a new administration to start to clean up after the debacle of the last unprecedented mess is still massively off the rails with justice, judges and how trials are conducted. We don't know that it can ever be respectable or cleaned up. As top trading partner Canada has to contend with masses of sheer groundless legal harassment, which you probably never hear about, just after dragging out for years we usually win the case in an international court, though we have our own bad actors as well that get away with things for awhile too. We have strong conflict of interest laws that would've saved the people of the U.S. from all sorts of damage under the idiot administration still lurking for a comeback.

I hope people do feel goaded into defending their country, but it's not from harsh Canadians they need protecting. Take out the obvious garbage or you'll get more rats in charge. People supported and still support things that are provably wrong with deteriorating effects whether I dare say so or not.
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