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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 21 April 2021 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Michael, for the nth time, that has nothing to do with it.

——-

You are concerned with government interference in the court system, and you think the fact that Waters is a government official opining on a court case is the final word. You are ignoring any context that culturally and structurally, Waters has virtually no influence over the court system in another state, a sentiment that the judge in said court system agrees with. Just because you insist that it is irrelevant doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant. 


Edited by Michael Roberts on 21 April 2021 at 6:53pm
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 21 April 2021 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Fine. Here is a scenario for you. The Chairman of a very powerful government agency has been commenting on its preferred outcome and has tied their political career to this outcome but the court case was not going according to plan. They then make a phone call to the Governor of whatever state the court case is in, implying that her committee would not look favourably on his or her State if the outcome is not as he or she wants. The Governor then calls in some favours and has some people discuss things with the elected prosecutor and judge, implying a certain outcome would be advantageous to their career. Maybe some money is exchanged. Suddenly, things change at the trial and the outcome is now aligned with the politician's wishes. 

Seem ridiculous? I imagine it happens all the time, in one way or another. Did it happen in this case? Probably not. Could it happen? Sure. This is why government officials should not be involved in court cases. By commenting on an ongoing case, it introduces doubt in the entire system. 


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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 21 April 2021 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

All I am saying is that it is very irresponsible to for ANY government official to comment on ANY ongoing case. That's it. This particular case or even something as minor as the mayor of a small town asking the police to lose some speeding tickets, the government has no place in the court system in a free country. 
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John Wickett
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Posted: 21 April 2021 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

"The Right loves to demonize the 'Angry Black Woman', Waters is just the latest target. She had no affect on this case, and they know it. Like I said, it's just trying to change the narrative. Which should be that, y'know, justice was served."

Gotta call BS on that one.

I watched Fox News when the verdicts came in.  Across the board, their pundits agreed that justice was served.  NOBODY felt that Chauvin should have been acquitted.

Here's the narrative on Waters for me:  It was extremely foolish and irresponsible for her to fly into Minnesota and make the comments she made while a verdict was still pending.  

The problem is NOT that she expressed her opinion about the case.  I agree that would have no bearing on anything.

The problem is her statement that if the wrong verdict is issued, protesters should stay in the streets and be "more confrontational."  

Since there have been riots in Minnesota in addition to peaceful protests, the right wing media portrayed Waters' words as a call for violence, looting, and destruction.  

So when the judge said she may have prejudiced the case, what he was talking about was not her opinion about Chauvin; it was that she may have contributed to a perception among jurors that there would be rioting if they didn't return the verdict she wanted, and the desire to avoid violence may have impacted their decision.  

To the extent jurors may have been influenced by this, I would lay a lot of the blame on Kevin McCarthy and conservative media outlets, for construing her remarks in the worst possible light.  

But some of the blame falls on her too.  I think it was unfathomably stupid for a politician with her years of experience to place herself in this position. 

You can argue all day that the words of a Congresswoman from another state would not influence people, but that is nonsense.  Even Waters would disagree with you.  Otherwise, why would she take the time to go to Minnesota in the first place?  Clearly, she thought she could influence events that unfolded after the verdict was announced. 

Finally, the reaction to her comments was easily foreseeable (which is exactly why Biden withheld commenting until after the jury was sequestered).  

Personally, I don't think an appeal will succeed, for reasons that have already been mentioned in this thread, but that doesn't absolve Waters or the media for the way they handled this situation. 
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 21 April 2021 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Gotta call BS on that one.

Yeah, I'm not surprised.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 21 April 2021 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply


 QUOTE:
So when the judge said she may have prejudiced the case, what he was talking about was not her opinion about Chauvin; it was that she may have contributed to a perception among jurors that there would be rioting if they didn't return the verdict she wanted, and the desire to avoid violence may have impacted their decision.

I remain unconvinced that any jurors had not considered unrest in response to acquittal until Waters said something.


 QUOTE:
You can argue all day that the words of a Congresswoman from another state would not influence people, but that is nonsense.  Even Waters would disagree with you.  Otherwise, why would she take the time to go to Minnesota in the first place?  Clearly, she thought she could influence events that unfolded after the verdict was announced.

I think that's more to do with her being a prominent black leader than anything having to do with her office. It's about who she is, not what office she holds, and I say that understanding there's some overlap.

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John Wickett
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Posted: 21 April 2021 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

"I remain unconvinced that any jurors had not considered unrest in response to acquittal until Waters said something."

I agree, which is the main reason I think the appeal will not succeed.  I was just clarifying that the problem cited by the defense was not that she expressed an opinion about what the verdict should be.

"I think that's more to do with her being a prominent black leader than anything having to do with her office. It's about who she is, not what office she holds, and I say that understanding there's some overlap."

I also agree with this.



Edited by John Wickett on 21 April 2021 at 8:43pm
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 21 April 2021 at 11:49pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

 Neil Lindholm wrote:
All she has done is create a nice talking point for Fox News and introduced doubt. (I checked their web site a few minutes ago. I see they are running with this). Very irresponsible on her part, or an any government official with the ability to pass laws.

Who. The. Fuck. Cares what FAUX News will run with?  

Seriously?  

They are the absolute last bastion of determination over what the national conversation should be and if you think it's not? Can't help you there. Like we should gauge our NATIONAL conversation on a racist, backwater, bullshit pseudo "news" like FAUX NEWS??? 

Brother, please.
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 21 April 2021 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Around 70 million of your fellow citizens care the fuck about Fox News, since they voted for Trump. Why give them more tools to fuck over your fellow Americans? Take the high ground and it gives them less to work with. 

And that is what you got out of my comments about politicians wading into areas they don't belong? That I somehow care or support Fox News? 



Edited by Neil Lindholm on 21 April 2021 at 11:57pm
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 21 April 2021 at 11:58pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

Stop caring about what FAUX News cares about.  

Stop catering to them, thus setting their agenda.

It's simple.  

But sure, Neil, let's "worry" about how a fake news media outlet will receive us so we can frame ourselves in the least objectionable light TO THEM.  

Bully.  

They've already won....in your world.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 22 April 2021 at 12:14am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

 Neil Lindholm wrote:
And that is what you got out of my comments about politicians wading into areas they don't belong? That I somehow care or support Fox News?

You are an auto-contrarian.  You automatically, knee jerk respond to certain threads and comments like clockwork. Often, those responses don't take into effect what has been put on record.  Your responses are made with what I would categorize as reckless disregard for those who have gone through different, often harrowing, experiences.  There is no room for disagreement.  No thread of compassion.  You believe what you believe and there is no room for discussion.  

If I'm wrong, so be it.  That's just what I've witnessed over more than a decade.  
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 22 April 2021 at 12:16am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Sorry, I have no idea what the fuck you are so angry about. I don't usually swear in these discussions but I have an urge to drop to your level.

If you somehow got the impression that my concerns over the optics of politicians discussing the outcomes of trails before the trial has concluded is only because of Fox News then I guess we don't have anything else to say to each other. 
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