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Tim O Neill
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 01 June 2020 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply


Well said, Doug J

And thank you Michael Roberts for the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar link - you don't
have to like basketball to love Abdul-Jabbar's consistent voice of truth in Los
Angels over the years.

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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10625
Posted: 01 June 2020 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply


David Allen Perrin: "Kaepernick simply took a knee to protest this very same
garbage and America lost its shit!

HE. TOOK. A. KNEE.

So I can’t say that the current reaction to the murder of George Floyd is too
much. Because when the reaction is passive...and peaceful...its too much then
as well."

*****

So true - the hypocrisy is in full view.


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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 01 June 2020 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

My only issue with Kaepernick is that for a while he lumped all police in together. I have several police, both active and retired, in my family. When he wore those socks featuring pig heads wearing police hats, it pissed me off.

But he should be back in the NFL already. Some teams don't need him, and I'm sure some teams that could use him don't want the media circus that will come along. Definitely think he's blackballed, though. 

To me the big problem is that no one monitors or punishes the police, except the police themselves. 


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James Johnson
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Posted: 01 June 2020 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

My problem with law enforcement is that when they come into minority neighborhoods preaching that , "If you see something, say something!"

Stating that they know that someone may have witness a crime. Which MAY be true, but get upset when folks don't speak up

We can 180 this and say the same to the police. I'm sure that good cops do witness bad cops being abusive. If so:

 "If you see something, say something!"

But that Fine Blue Line is far more important.

If 1,000 good cops see 10 bad cops being abusive, not only to black Americans, but to all citizens. Then you have 1,010 bad cops.


Edited by James Johnson on 01 June 2020 at 3:41pm
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Ron Grant
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Posted: 01 June 2020 at 3:14pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

My only issue with Kaepernick is that for a
while he lumped all police in together. I have
several police, both active and retired, in my
family. When he wore those socks featuring pig
heads wearing police hats, it pissed me off.--
-------------------------------------Black
people getting killed by pigs with no
repercussions really piss me offReally the
socks bothered you?Where can I get a pair!
link

Edited by Ron Grant on 01 June 2020 at 3:23pm
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 01 June 2020 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

As a high school teacher, I have a legal responsibility to report a fellow teacher if I discover they are acting in an illegal way. Do the police have such a responsibility to turn in their fellow police or do they just turn a blind eye? Have the police in your family ever witnessed or heard about a fellow officer abusing his authority and did they do anything about it? Doubtful. 

(from https://vittana.org/42-shocking-police-brutality- statistics)

4. 52% of police officers report that it is not unusual for law enforcement officials to turn a blind eye to the improper conduct of other officers. (US Department of Justice)

5. 61% of police officers state that they do not always report serious abuse that has been directly observed by fellow officers. (US Department of Justice)

6. 43% of police officers agree with this sentiment: “Always following the rules is not compatible with the need to get their job done.” (US Department of Justice)

7. 84% of police officers have stated in a recent survey that they have directly witnesses a fellow officer using more force than was necessary. (US Department of Justice)
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 01 June 2020 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

But if you are against the name-calling and the hate mongering, if you are against the escalation and calling everything a war on this or a war on that... how is echoing the same thing back going to lead anywhere good? If someone crosses a line and you use that to justify your crossing a line, and on and on it goes, eventually we're all way over the edge!
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 01 June 2020 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

As I said before, the problem I have is that the police are the ones policing themselves. There are too many cover-ups, too many excuses, and too many cops sliding on things they shouldn't. As I said, at least two of the cops involved in the George Floyd murder (including the actual murderer) had several complaints filed against them with no reprimands or any disciplanary action, and the highers up just waived them off as `anti-police behavior', revenge, or other things they could make excuses for. 

Police also seem to receive sentences that are way too lenient. The female officer in Texas who shot a man in his own apartment when she confused his for hers got off too light. She should have to server every single day of her sentence, with an impact statement from the victim's family read at the hearing every time she comes up for parole. I'm sure the jackass who shot the deaf guy in South Carolina will get a slap on the hand......

There needs to be backlash, but riots are not the answer. If the rioters were attacking police, police stations or government property, it might be somewhat understandable. But this is no better than the riots over the Rodney King verdict, where people are just being thugs and thieves. They're no better than the asshole police officers who have been attacking and arresting peaceful protesters. Black politicians and politicians who were either doing their job by covering the situation or peacefully protesting have been arrested, and you can bet nothing major will happen to the cops involved.

And now Trump is really showing that he's a fascist by threatening to unleash the military if the local authorities don't stop the rioting. The Pentagon is rightfully not thrilled with that idea, according to reports that are out. 

I feel sorry for the peaceful protesters who have been unfairly arrested or injured by the thug cops. However, if any cops who have been unfairly arresting or attacking protesters (NOT rioters; fuck those people) have been hurt, then I have absolutely no sympathy at all for them. 

And Ron Grant, Kaepernick's excuse for those socks does not hold water. Clothing like those socks makes it looks like the wearer hates all police, not just the bad ones. If you can't see that, that's your problem. Not mine. 


Edited by Brian Floyd on 01 June 2020 at 10:59pm
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Posted: 01 June 2020 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The "few bad apples" storyline needs to be dropped for good.

There can't be bad apples. Not at that job. Not on police forces that are given10x the budget as hospital workers that have to make their own protective masks.

Chris Rock illustrated it perfectly in one of his monologues. What if American Airlines told you that most of their pilots like to land the plane but there are a few bad apples? People's lives are on the line. 100% of the pilots need to land the plane.

Tonight Seth Meyers made another analogy that works for me as well, and with apples too. If you go to an orchard and the owner tells you that most of his apples are great but a few are bad, you'd ask how bad. And if he said "Well... kill you bad", would you take a bite? Would you say some apples kill you but all in all it's a pretty good orchard?


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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 02 June 2020 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I just watched a brilliant video by Trevor Noah (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4amCfVbA_c) and I finally got the situation here through my thick head.

It's about why there is rioting and looting in this crisis. And I don't agree with all of it, but I can understand it now. If someone lives under the victimizing eye of the police every minute of every day, I'd be enraged. Crap, I'm enraged NOW, and I'm an entitled white man.

Striking back at the police by burning an abandoned police station or a couple of police cars is understandable to me. It's the only way to strike back and make a statement. I don't agree with the violence... but it's the only voice they currently have.

The problem I have is with looters attacking individual businesses. Here in Cleveland, restaurants and stores were smashed that are individually owned... and where does it leave those owners? Again - I may not agree, but I understand attacking a CVS or a Target. But going after a home-owned Italian bakery proves what? That every white person is responsible for what's going on? In part perhaps... but that's where, I feel, the line is crossed.

I'm afraid I'm still a little simplistic about this. I believe that there is nothing worse than a dirty cop, and there are way too many out there exercising way too much authority for people carrying guns. There has to be a better way to test potential police officers. "A few bad apples" is a disaster.

When someone finds a workable solution, please let me know. I'll get on board immediately. But right now, I don't know what can be done.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 02 June 2020 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Understandable does help. I wish more people could try out that word. Some of these things might not be ideal or positive, but definitely many are understandable. I try to see Trump voters as having at least some understandable motives. I can't imagine that there would be any after this performance of the past three plus years, but I will continue at least to try. What Yoda says about there only being doing and not doing is probably great for a muppet in a galaxy far far away. Okay, an extremely well made muppet with top-notch voice acting and pretty cool swamp house...
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Michael Casselman
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Posted: 02 June 2020 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

The problem I have is with looters attacking individual businesses. Here in Cleveland, restaurants and stores were smashed that are individually owned... and where does it leave those owners? Again - I may not agree, but I understand attacking a CVS or a Target. But going after a home-owned Italian bakery proves what? That every white person is responsible for what's going on? In part perhaps... but that's where, I feel, the line is crossed.
_________________________
Once you start smashing any business, the line is crossed, IMO.
CVS and Target are understandable? I mean, sure, they're corporately owned, but who works there? Your local neighbors. Who is now out of a job until they can rebuild/repair (if they choose to)? Your neighbors. Who still depends on picking up their perscriptions from those stores? Your neighbors. Neighbors of all backgrounds.
That may not be the same as someone who has sunk their lifetime of blood sweat and tears into opening and keeping open an independent business, but those neighbors who work at the local big box or chain store depend on that business to maintain their livelihood just as much as anyone else. 
That business didn't hurt or kill George Floyd. That business didn't put it's knee on Lloyd's neck, wasn't resposible for the cops actions, wasn't responsible for doling out punishment to his killers.
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