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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 13 June 2020 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Like Rebecca, I can't get a good sense of what is happening in Seattle, but on the surface it looks like lots of trial and error regarding how to proceed. Unfortunately, the states are too high for me to endorse a trial and error plan for a safe society.

A police force is needed, but should not be used for everything. The job of a police office can not afford to have even one bad apple. A society with a military and police force better funded than many infrastructure facilities and services is going to fail its citizens eventually. But a total lack of military and police force is also a road to failure.
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Brandon Frye
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Posted: 13 June 2020 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

A local Seattle news side is reporting that there are "armed guards" in CHAZ. 


From the article:

“It’s not our intent to try to create any paradox to try to incite violence or have that be a motif,” said demonstrator Maurice Cola. “We’re not trying to use our guns to flash around — it’s for defense.”'

That sounds dangerously close to an NRA talking point. Any progressives that are in support of CHAZ and similar endeavors had better start thinking about how they will still be able to advocate gun control. 

As it is, 2nd Amendment folks are probably reading articles like the one above with a nod and a smile. 




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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 June 2020 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Wait for the slaughter to commence.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 13 June 2020 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

As it is, 2nd Amendment folks are probably reading articles like the one above with a nod and a smile. 

------

Not really. There's always been a racist double standard when it comes to 2A rights for black people. Look how silent the NRA was on the killing of Philando Castile. And the shooting of Mark Hughes.

This guy got no support from his fellow militia types when he tried to get BLM protestors to carry in 2015:  https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/the-oath-k eeper-who-wants-to-arm-black-lives-matter-59109/

I mean, a lot of gun control we /do/ have is because Conservatives backed gun control when it was about preventing Black Panthers from walking around with guns.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 13 June 2020 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news- runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protes ts-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/
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David Miller
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Posted: 13 June 2020 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

My many Seattle friends insist the Trump and media narrative about CHAZ is a bunch of overwrought bellyaching.

For example:
 QUOTE:
Glad Seattle has finally made it to the big leagues! Didn’t anticipate that it would be the wild anarchy in the streets of unchecked sidewalk chalking and complimentary hand sanitizer and lemonade that was gonna get us here.

Another:
 QUOTE:
OH FORF*CKSAKE - I *LIVE* here. The city is not “helpless” or “hijacked”. This crap is the very definition of fake news.

And another:
 QUOTE:
The place in Seattle that DT has been railing about on twitter as being out of control and full of criminality and mayhem. Ha! My accountant is located within that zone and the only things that I'm worried about are not being able to participate in the silent march and getting to the last available appointment on time. Don't believe the hype!


Edited by David Miller on 13 June 2020 at 3:13pm
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 13 June 2020 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

By the way, normally I might think it would be cool for a non-African or descended person to wear something African, it's just when they do these things collectively around an election which makes it seem so shallow and pandering for votes. That Black Lives Matters pins haven't caught on like the little pink or yellow ribbons have is probably evidence of racism, or else people just can't find one to put on... I would definitely wear one in support if I had one, not so different from how we wear poppies leading up to November 11th. The idea that a veteran would see me out without a poppy genuinely bothers me.

Open carry has never seemed to work out so well for visible minorities. Some places they don't even need to be carrying, just that the person who felt threatened "thought" they were, or for Florida was near a sidewalk which it deemed a potential deadly weapon in the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case. I see Trayvon's mother is standing for office in FL this year.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 13 June 2020 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

This is like a Bolshevik revolution on the decks of a sinking Titanic. CHAZ will empty out pretty quick when COVID-19 catches up. 
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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 13 June 2020 at 10:44pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

As a proponent of the 2nd Amendmen, I'm always
surprised by how little those that don't
carry, can't understand the mentally of those
that do. 20 cities originally took part in not
just protests,but looting and rioting. All 20
of them are run by very liberal mayors most of
which have very strict gun laws. Chicago has
some if the strictest guns laws on the books,
still the south side rioted and destroyed the
area with over 40 people shot by firearms. How
did they get the guns? The law abiding
population have no recourse to fight back.
Seattle also has very progressive gun laws,
but The Warlord Of Chaz had no problem
bringing them in.

Meanwhile, in Baton Rouge and New Orleans,
where open carry firearms is allowed,
everyone played civil. They protested
peacefully and people listen to each other.
Nobody wants to riot and loot when the
population is armed to the teeth. Even in 2016
when we had our BLM/Police issues they left
the rest of the people out of it.

Normal everyday people who own firearms do not
treat the word like the old west. Owning,
using and maintaining a firearm is a very
serious business. You truly do take away
everything someone was, everything they are
and everything they ever will be. Were I to
ever have to take another life, it would haunt
me forever. But to protect my family, it's a
burden I would be willing to carry. Criminals
and Mentally unstable people treat the world
like the wild west. The rest of us are content
just practicing with paper targets.

I feel for the people who simply live in a
that six block area,in Seattle, stuck in a
quagmire. They can't defend themselves or
their homes. Rumors are, they are being
extorted for their food and supplies.
My gun stays safely within its holster. But, I
reserve the right to defend myself when crazy
situations happen. Odds are, it never will.
But, Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, Minneapolis,
St. Louis, Chicago. Proves it can.

As for the anger within the black community
against the police...I have Chappelle said it
best. When a person kills a cop, they receive
the wrath of the entire police departmen,
because you have killed one of there own. How
can you expect to openly kill a black man and
not get the same treatment. I understand
protesting police brutality but I don't
understand destroying your own community in
the process.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 13 June 2020 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I suppose if they go too far in binding the hands of police and/or thinning their numbers there would be more people armed more often. I grew up around hunting some, I learned to shoot, guns were/are a tool and organizations like the NRA used to be all about safety in handling and using these tools. The sport or collectable aspect is pretty much entirely alien to me. People in rural areas need rifles at hand sometimes, people in cities might find for a variety of reasons they have a need as well. i would not want to be in a very rural area, especially in Alaska as I was, with no rifle available. I chose not to have one in a major city which I've lived in three for shorter periods. I do want sensible restrictions against people with mental health records getting them, but I think something over 80% of modern NRA members were also polled the same, and Ronald Reagan wrote a letter once urging Republicans to back bills that would minimize of keep off streets "military style assault weapons", one can quibble about which those agree I suppose, but so many still use his image as some kind of great Republican totem even while taking opposite positions to what he did or allowing the Brady bill to lapse which only came into being because of an attempt on him that almost succeeded! Someone has to get the manufacturer lobby money out of the NRA which totally corrupted it and restore it to it's original purpose as it is as needed as ever, safety over exaggerated fear mongering to raise campaign contributions. There should be such a thing as the right not to have to bear arms.

Anyway, seeing the latest flames in Atlanta I can imagine living anywhere near there a lot of folks will be keeping a weapon of some kind close at hand for the next night or three. Police never know if they are coming up against someone with a basic glock or some sort of bumpstocked semi-automatic with a hundred round clip of armor-piercing hollow points... that has definitely played into their hit fast and hard just in case approach that leads to more casualties. If the U.S. could broker a retiring of nuclear warheads in the past, maybe you can still find ways to de-escalate the personal arms race that has been to the benefit mainly of makers?

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 13 June 2020 at 11:27pm
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 14 June 2020 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Holy crap! Did I scare Andy away when I asked him to back up his statement about arguing the Democrats have gone far and above anything Trump has done or proposed? I'm used to it.

Brian Miller, I feel I owe you a bit of an explanation regarding why I engage instead of ignoring Andy. I have family and friends that support Trump and argue their points EXACTLY the way Andy does here on the forum. I find they fall into two groups of Trump supporters. There are those that voted for Trump on a single issue like he will put more money in my pocket or he is pro life. And there are those that support him for something they can't back up like "he speaks truth".

The single issue supporters are seeing the error in their ways. It is hard to say Trump is pro life when he is doing so much harm to the living and making no progress on the pro life agenda. And putting more money in your pocket without examining how he is doing it or while ignoring the current economy Trump helped to create is borderline terminal ignorance. So those people have hope as long as they don't loose the ability to think for themselves.

The cultists are a tougher nut to crack. I don't speak with my immediate family that support Trump in this way because I hold them to a very high standard and after his first year in office dealing with their backward logic, wilful ignorance and untrue statements I just couldn't. They got ignored and I continue to ignore them. I do speak with the people that are not my immediate family. Because the only way back to the people I love is to learn how to deal with their hypocrisy and how easily they are duped by media messages targeted to swaying or providing them with their opinion.

So far Andy is behaving exactly the way my acquaintances behave when I press them for information to back up their assertions. The response is silence. I even conceded the five examples Andy might give on both sides of his statement are his opinion and therefore he is entitled to whatever bias he wishes. But sadly he is too scared to even let us in on what he thinks is important on both sides of the isle. Too bad, I do want to know what makes him tick.

Kind of long winded, but it was a good opportunity for people to understand my persistence. Thanks for asking, Brian.
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 14 June 2020 at 2:45pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Is there really any point in arguing with someone who has predetermined that you're a cultist?  

You win.  You're right and the rest of the world is just too stupid to see things from your lofty level.  But, you're the one who doesn't speak with his immediate family.  

I can't help but question someone who cuts off his own family in favor of political righteousness.  

But, like I said, you win.  I took the bait and responded to your post.  There is no point in arguing though.  I think you're just as crazy as you think I am.  I'm not diplomatic enough to sway you so I give up.

Reading through this thread, there seems to be a dismissal of what's going on in Seattle and some still want Bernie.  None of which seems particularly rational to me.  

Ultimately, I don't see anything more than partisanship going.  And there is no winning in those conversations.  It was my folly to try and look beyond the propaganda and rhetoric.  I was not pro-Trump and in fact, leaning anti-Trump when I started to look at some of the conversations being had.  

But, just as I've said in general, the left has overplayed their hand and in my case, made me really question their attitudes and tactics.  And yes, even now, I feel that side of the aisle is far more toxic than Trump, who has earned plenty of criticism with his lack of tact and diplomacy.
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