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Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 1
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And for the record, I liked the Dukes of Hazard. It was
probably my favorite show at that time (I was a kid),
but I did not know then what I know now, and it would
have been just as fun without the flag on the roof of
the car and a horn that wished they were in the land of
cotton.
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 7:02am | IP Logged | 2
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I agree, Ted. That's why in my original post in this thread, I mentioned telling my students who defend the flag as "part of their heritage" that we live in West Virginia and the Confederacy has nothing to do with our heritage. But at the end of it, I mentioned that I enjoyed the Dukes of Hazzard, more defending the show than the image of the General Lee.
If anything I agree with the whole idea of this thread. I admit that I lean further to the right than many in this group but I've never understood Confederate statues and the prominence of their flag. Southerners have many things to be proud of that don't include belonging to the Confederacy and the legacy that goes with it. As I tell my students, we don't have statues of Benedict Arnold erected all over the place, why should we celebrate the side that tried to secede from the country and cost so many lives.
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Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 7:13am | IP Logged | 3
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Familiarize yourself with the Lost Cause narrative,
Shawn, and you will get the answers to your questions
and others you didn't even know you had.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 4
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I'm deleting this post-- I've given the wrong impression of my views and think it's best if I just take this down altogether.
Edited by Andrew Bitner on 10 July 2020 at 7:45am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 5
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I don't really remember the Dukes spending a lot of time dwelling on the Confederacy, apart from having a car with the battle flag emblem and name--that was about as "Confederate" as it got, IIRC. If it's worth ripping the show over using what has been a popular cultural trope of the South, well, rip away.•• Somehow, the Confederacy has been handed a Get Out of Jail Free card for far too many years. To repeat, these were traitors who murdered thousands of Americans. That's what the flag and the name mean. Would you shrug it off so blithely if it was a swastika?
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Andrew Bitner
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 7:45am | IP Logged | 6
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I don't mean to defend the show against charges that it was using symbols of a hateful and oppressive regime, and apologize if that's what I said above. That's not how I feel.
Although many people have always seen (and hated) those symbols for what they represent, the producers of the show were probably not socially conscious enough to realize what it said to the viewers. Maybe they were and didn't care, which is egregious.
It sounds as though the car's signature emblem will be digitally erased (in case it goes back to DVD or syndication), which is a good outcome. And it's good that our society is no longer quietly accepting these symbols the way we did.
And... I've had a lot of arguments with family from the Deep South who defend the Confederacy to this day. I'm not one of them. I should probably remove the comment above, as it does not reflect my view of the Confederacy, its symbols or the deliberate use of those symbols to terrorize or oppress Black people not just in the South but across the country.
Edited by Andrew Bitner on 10 July 2020 at 7:47am
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 7
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Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain recorded an exchange he had
with a Confederate officer.
QUOTE:
With a respectful salutation, calling his attention
to the bearing of the men on both sides, “This promises
well for our coming good-will,” said I; “brave men may
become good friends.” “You're mistaken, sir,” he turned and
said. “You may forgive us but we won't be forgiven. There
is a rancor in our hearts which you little dream of. We
hate you, sir.” |
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Andrew Bitner
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 8
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Oh, I'm well aware that many Southerners to this day hate "Yankees" to their very core. And FFIW, we should have hanged Robert E. Lee and the other generals, along with Jefferson Davis, as traitors. The assassination of Lincoln by Booth likely damned the nation to a never-healed schism, as Lincoln would have managed reconciliation, while his successor did his best to ignore it.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 9
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The same with Lynyrd Skynyrd using the flag in their heyday
*******
If you're referring to their heyday as back in the 70s, they wanted
nothing to do with it. Their record company pushed it on them as an
image of them being a southern band, and they didn't want to be seen
as that at all. They were afraid people would see it and then see them
as stupid and uneducated. As soon as they could, they got rid of it.
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 10
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I'll check it out, Ted. Thanks! Thanks for the info, Brian. I remember in a Dan Rather interview they talked about getting rid of it but I wasn't aware that the record company pushed it. |
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James Woodcock
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 11
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As a kid in the U.K., I didn’t really understand the history of the
Confederate flag in Dukes of Hazard, nor the name General Lee. I just
assumed they were associated with people that lived just the other side
of legal, but were really a friendly bunch - a bit like the mythical image
of the cockney Londoners.
The reality is - what the hell were they thinking? I’m trying to think what
the equivalent would be in the U.K. it certainly is not Robin Hood,
possibly Guy Fawkes (which would be V I guess), but even then I don’t
think it would be the same.
The Nazi swastika really is the best analogy.
As an aside, Trump clearly sides with the Confederate views & his
whole narrative of government bad plays into their base. That he’s a
racist twat also plays well with the other racist twats that align with the
confederacy - so double win.
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Rodrigo castellanos
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Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
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| Posted: 10 July 2020 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 12
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Would you shrug it off so blithely if it was a swastika?
Now I can't get the image of a show about two German boys riding and old Mercedes-Benz nicknamed "The Adolf Hitler" with a swastika on the roof out of my head.
Would make a good SNL skit.
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