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Joe Zhang
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 1
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7:45 hours? How did they even manage that?
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James Johnson
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 9:35am | IP Logged | 2
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Of that 7 hours and 45 minutes, how much did he beat his chest in regards to Secret Wars I & II?
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John Wickett
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 3
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Secret Wars II has to be one of the worst things Marvel every produced.
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Peter Martin
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 10:17am | IP Logged | 4
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Secret Wars II has to be one of the worst things Marvel every produced. ---------------------------------------------------------- I dunno -- there's a lot of competition!
It is culpable of being the thing that started Marvel's strategy of intrusive crossover events and for that I suppose it deserves some kind of wooden spoon.
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Jabari Lamar
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 5
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It's easy to trash it now, especially because of the aforementioned legacy of crossover events that it helped start, but as a kid in elementary school at the time, I friggin' loved Secret Wars and Secret Wars II.
Those books basically served as my entry point to the Marvel universe. I was primarily a fan of DC, not out of any kind of specific company loyalty or any anything I just seemed to gravitate towards more of those characters. I knew of characters like Spider-Man, Fantastic Four and Hulk through the cartoons and TV shows, and I had a childhood friend who loved Iron Man, but SW was my first time reading all of those heroes and others in comic-book form. And a bunch of superhero vs supervillain battles was exactly the kind of thing young me enjoyed.
And then Secret Wars II was even better, because now instead of a separate "self-contained" adventure, this was like taking a tour of the entire Marvel Universe. It was fun getting each new issues of the series and making sure I got every single tie-in issue each month.
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Bob Harvey
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 6
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Secret Wars were some fairly bad comics, but I bet they brought a bunch of new readers in. Anecdotally, I remember quite a few kids in my peer group that were suddenly interested in super heroes because of the action figures.
Second-greatest era in Marvel Comics history. Even allowing for subjectivity, that anyone would prefer the DeFalco years is crazy to me.
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Rebecca Jansen
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 7
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I didn't watch the whole marathon, but i made it to the part where he comments on JB. It was fairly non-inflammatory unless the story about how John Byrne was not good at storytelling early on counts, but good Mr. Shooter 'championed' JB and tried to guide him as best he could to better visual storytelling (not like that early Neal Adams he mentions as a bad influence). Then he credits a breakthrough to JB reading all the Kirby drawn FFs as prep for taking on the title, suddenly JB 'got it' and has been a top storyteller since. I dunno about all that as I really liked the Rog 2000 and Doomsday +1 Charlton stuff comparable to other things, definitely mid '70s highlights in my mind, and then Marvel Team-Up and The Avengers was pretty solid. There were comics I had confusions in following visually, but not John Byrne comics that I remember, unless to do with word balloon placements or a coloring screw-up.
Shooter also recounts Pat Broderick not turning in an Iron Fist so JB got the opportunity because he was fast, but he can't remember how his name had come up (I'm thinking Duffy Vohland?). Also the whole Phoenix must be punished, no must die, you can't kill her, yes do it story. There might be some slight discrepancies on who said the must die part though... he says Chris and John came up with it but then when he responded okay they balked and had to have his editorial decision firmly made to pull off this great classic. The interviewer like me agrees it made sense. Had all only known all the Phoenix milking b.s. that would follow! But Jim Shooter takes credit for starting the whole thing with his idea of a hero becoming a villain instead of the other way ala Black Widow and Hawkeye. This may be the seed of the 'darkness' that crept over '80s-'90s comics here... who wants to take credit for that? If he'll own tennis outfit Korvac and the disco suited Beyonder he's welcome to that too I say (plus Ferro Lad way way back). :^D
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 29 March 2021 at 11:18am
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Kevin Brown
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 8
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Man, Shooter sure does love to hear himself talk...
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John Wickett
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 9
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"It's easy to trash it now, especially because of the aforementioned legacy of crossover events that it helped start, but as a kid in elementary school at the time, I friggin' loved Secret Wars and Secret Wars II."
I was around the same age and enjoyed the first one, but not the sequel. I think Secret Wars II was objectively bad, even without considering the legacy of line-wide crossover events.
Besides, I think DC is more to blame for that trend. Secret Wars preceded Crisis, but DC was the first company to run a mega-crossover every year. After Secret Wars II, Marvel didn't do another one until Infinity Gauntlet in the 90s. That had a couple of sequels, but then no line-wide crossovers until House of M and Civil War.
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Adam Schulman
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 10
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Well, Marvel had relatively "contained" events like Acts of Vengeance, Evolutionary War and Atlantis Attacks in the late '80s.
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Peter Martin
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 11
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I was around the same age and enjoyed the first one, but not the sequel. I think Secret Wars II was objectively bad, even without considering the legacy of line-wide crossover events------------------------------------------------- I feel the same. I've gone back to look at Secret Wars and there's no doubt it has its flaws and some characters are portrayed oddly, but it's still enjoyable. The Zeck art really helps. Secret Wars II was rambling and I didn't like the art in the actual limited series itself (I thought there were some decent crossover stories).
I think you're being a bit easy on Marvel regarding crossovers, John W. Yes, truly line-wide events held off for a while, but after Secret Wars II we got the Mutant Massacre. It wasn't company wide, but it did suck in Thor, Power Pack, UXM, X-Factor, The New Mutants and Daredevil. In subsequent years we got Fall of the Mutants, Inferno, Atlantis Attacks, Acts of Vengeance and so on. Some of these were less intrusive (a lot tended to be in the X-Books originally and Atlantis Attacks was only in the annuals, for example), but the die was cast.
Edited by Peter Martin on 29 March 2021 at 5:48pm
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Harri Jokinen
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Joined: 11 May 2014
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| Posted: 29 March 2021 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | 12
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Secret Wars having odd portrayals seems to be a popular opinion in this board, but I haven't seen any examples offered (besides one Spidey/X-Men fight). I never noticed anyone being more out of character than they would have been in an average guest spot.
John Wickett wrote:
| Besides, I think DC is more to blame for that trend. Secret Wars preceded Crisis, but DC was the first company to run a mega-crossover every year. After Secret Wars II, Marvel didn't do another one until Infinity Gauntlet in the 90s. That had a couple of sequels, but then no line-wide crossovers until House of M and Civil War. |
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Inferno and Onslaught I would definitely add to the intrusive crossover -category.
John Wickett wrote:
| JB, kind of an unrelated question, but could Shooter draw? I was looking at an old issue of Marvel Fanfare over the weekend (one of the Perez Black Widow issues), and in the pinups section at the end, there was a Hulk picture that was credited to Jim Shooter and Terry Austin. Never heard of Shooter drawing anything before. |
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Shooter actually did art on a couple of Marvel comics. Spectacular Spider-Man during the Stern era comes to mind.
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