Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 9 Next >>
Topic: Hardest superhero to write (hold the reality, please) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 803
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Waid did a great job making Wally an interesting person, creating the Speed Force, and using that to explore aspects of Wally's powers that nobody had thought of before.  It was a completely new direction for the character that opened the door to lots of interesting story possibilities.  And he did it without dishonoring anything that came before his run.  I didn't enjoy EVERYTHING he wrote, but that's just a matter of personal taste.  Overall, it was an impressive run, and the best kind of comic writing.  
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Yet even as Superman was given more limits post-CRISIS, Flash just seemed to get faster and faster in the comics, TV, and movies.  As though the writers are more interested in the metaphysical implications of the "Speed Force," thinking at super-speed, and time travel.

=======================================================

The Mike Baron / Jackson Guice series took a cue from COIE and had Wally's speed reduced to a top limit of 700 mph. That stuck until Mark Waid came on the book.

The 1990 TV series also had Barry Allen's top speed be the speed of sound.

I think for the reasons detailed elsewhere in the post to make the Flash not as invulnerable a figure as he could be seen to be.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Waid did a great job making Wally an interesting person...

=======================================================

William Messner Loebs was the one that really brought Wally's character / personality in to line and made him more likeable after Mike Baron portrayed him as a womaniser with a big ego and wanted monetary reward for his services.

Waid built on what Loebs had done.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Mike Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 811
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

As a big fan of The New Teen Titans back in the day, I just couldn't get into Wally as the Flash.  The personality change was so drastic that it really was an entirely different character.  And unfortunately, that wasn't isolated to Wally.  A whole lot of writers have worked very hard to destroy the amazing characterizations Wolfman and Perez gave us.  None of the characters is recognizable today.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5624
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Thor as a member of the Avengers has never been a good fit to me, and writers tend not to know what to do with him, as he can defeat most of the Avengers' foes without help. And if you just make the foes tougher, you have problems finding a job for Hawkeye or Wasp or even Cap.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Steven, the same issue witn Doctor Strange in The Defenders.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30884
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

But not every problem is solved by a swing of Mjolnir.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Peter Hicks
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1886
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Grant Morrison said that lots of writers find Superman hard to challenge because of his powers.  Morrison said he approaches the character as being just like any person, except his problems are a magnitude of order larger.  Eg. Superman’s old friends are stopping by to visit him.  But they are 7th dimensional beings who can only exist in a chlorine atmosphere under the same pressure found at the bottom of the ocean.  Where will they stay while they’re in town?

For Flash, I felt the Geoff Johns/Scott Kolins era was perfect.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Rodrigo castellanos
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 1463
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 8:57pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Or a writer thing.

Could be. I did enjoy Waid's run in general and I'm not completely up to speed (pun semi-intended) with the classic Silver Age Barry version.

I did find somewhat annoying the mostly Johns-led "restoration" of Hal and Barry. Right or wrong, a decision was made to have new characters assume the Flash and GL identities and IMHO they should've committed  to the change instead of conceding to the nostalgia of this particular writer. 

If he didn't like Wally or Kyle (I wasn't crazy about him either), make them interesting or something. What if in the middle of the Silver Age someone said "Nah screw this, I miss Jay Garrick and Alan Scott let's bring them back"? 


Morrison said he approaches the character as being just like any person, except his problems are a magnitude of order larger.

I generally liked Morrison's approach to Superman, excess Silver Age vibes and all.

He got something fundamentally right about his personality, something that IMHO JB got too: This is the most powerful being in the world, his personality should be full of a kind of mellow super confidence. Zero angsty at all, which was an unfortunate approach more than one creator tried with Superman.

But not every problem is solved by a swing of Mjolnir.

If only!






Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 10 April 2021 at 8:58pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Jason Scott
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1167
Posted: 11 April 2021 at 3:35am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I would say Captain America could be the hardest to write. As in how much do you lean into his patriotism? The whole American Dream vs the reality of America. There's still an insane part of me that almost wishes Steve Rogers had remained just 'The Captain' after the Johhny Walker story in the late 80es. As it would have been a way for him to more clearly be representing everyone. But then is that going too far away from the character as conceived?

Plus how much do you play up the 'man out of his time' angle. And is it even realistic to do so after he's been around so much in the present?

Then there's his values, and of course the no killing rule, and how much that stands apart from his war time role. I personally would approach that from the view that his brutal wartime experiences are exactly what has determined his belief in the sanctity of life. In the sense that he's so horrified by the loss of life he has seen when countries go to war.
But then how realistic is it for him to never do so in some fights? (Though should we even be worrying about it being realistic at all? These are escapist comic books after all.)

But it could be argued that Superman is an easier character to write having a no killing rule, (recent film attempts not withstanding) what with his super speed and invulnerability making it easier for him to find ways to quickly resolve a conflict without worrying so much that a stray bullet is taking him out.

But Cap has it that bit tougher and yet also has to share that burden of standing up for the whole, 'Truth, Justice and the American way' aspect. Though again the latter part of that brings it's own problems.

Cap done right is a very inspiring figure. But I imagine it would be all too easy to slip into the 'Ultimate' caricature of him if you're doing it wrong.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Rodrigo castellanos
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 1463
Posted: 11 April 2021 at 5:04am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Then there's his values, and of course the no killing rule, and how much that stands apart from his war time role.

As a mostly DC kid growing up I always assumed there was no "no killing rule" for most Marvel characters.

Captain America is a soldier, it just seems logical that he'd kill if necessary. Plus Wolverine, Punisher, etc., I just thought that was not such a taboo in the Marvel camp.

I remember a Mark Millar anecdote when he was writing a Hulk rampage sequence in "The Ultimates" and Marvel editorial sent him a note asking "But does the Hulk kill those people?" and he answered "Yeah, sure" and the editors said "No, no, Hulk can't do that".

Millar later recalled "I've always thought the Hulk killed people all the time!" And it's exactly what I assumed as well. He's moping about in guilt all the time as Banner just because he smashed a few buildings? With the necessary suspension of disbelief for the reader that those buildings and structures and debris involved never once hit a human being fatally?

But apparently that's the way it is, I've always found it bizarre.

 


Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 11 April 2021 at 5:18am
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132231
Posted: 11 April 2021 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I remember a Mark Millar anecdote when he was writing a Hulk rampage sequence in "The Ultimates" and Marvel editorial sent him a note asking "But does the Hulk kill those people?" and he answered "Yeah, sure" and the editors said "No, no, Hulk can't do that".

Millar later recalled "I've always thought the Hulk killed people all the time!" And it's exactly what I assumed as well. He's moping about in guilt all the time as Banner just because he smashed a few buildings? With the necessary suspension of disbelief for the reader that those buildings and structures and debris involved never once hit a human being fatally?

But apparently that's the way it is, I've always found it bizarre.

••

Then you're part of the problem.

Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 9 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login