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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 09 September 2021 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

If I myself ever seem poisonous or simply wrong, anyone can just say so to me. We all are like cars with blind spots and need people with other points of view to not hit the garbage cans (I learned this from watching that Hoarders show and reading about dyslexic musicians and comic artists) The hard line for me is threats of violence that aren't being funny, about anybody or any group. When I have gotten bullied though I feel I have to stay and not run away... that is tied in with some real severe trauma in my life. I simply have to. I'll defuse, deescalate, apologize if I can mean it... but I won't leave when I think someone is trying to force me to.

And yes, you'd think we'd all be on the same side. If you can't laugh, if every little thing is a big serious issue... then, I'm not sure you aren't a Skrull imposter!
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Phil Frances
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Posted: 09 September 2021 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Rebecca - it was one of the reactions to your own posts that I found objectionable recently - and the fact it came from an Admin was tbh utterly disgusting - there was no need for the vitriol it contained, and I hope the poisonous **** that posted it realises their error ... they know who they are.

For me, I've not always agreed with some of the opinions expressed on the Forum, but I do read them all with interest, and due respect - as it should be.

So - please - feel free to opine away, ma'am ; always interested to hear what you have to say ! *

* Assuming I'm not just a Skrull spy .... ;-)



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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 10 September 2021 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Thank you Phil! Marathon post coming up about the greatness of all the various Sooty tv series and why they need to be on bluray immediately! :^)

Greg Kirkman was someone who received some very bizarre and extreme personal attacks here and Mr. Byrne pointed out how he had said some of the same things Kirkman was flamed over! I usually associate the lockstep posse against an enemy thing with alt-right Americans but there are some extreme PC folks that seem able to go just as far. If you say you don't see why Iceman is gay now, or Doctor Who changed sex... watch out. I guess Greg finally was driven off, but if he's reading I renew my support for him to not accommodate his genuine opinions to an in-crowd, even if I don't share some of them. If this was just an everyone agreeing and saying how right their friends and some 'leaders' are forum, it wouldn't actually be a forum. Having our real names attached (I hope) is one of the best things about it by the way.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 10 September 2021 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply


 QUOTE:
Greg Kirkman was someone who received some very bizarre and extreme personal attacks here

Greg repeated his "Get woke, go broke" screed ad nauseam and eventually dragged it to every thread


 QUOTE:
Mr. Byrne pointed out how he had said some of the same things Kirkman was flamed over

And JB was incorrect about how the things he said were similar to what Greg said.


 QUOTE:
If you say you don't see why Iceman is gay now, or Doctor Who changed sex... watch out.

You are being incredibly disingenuous here, Rebecca. No one gives a shit if you don't like Iceman being gay or Doctor Who being a woman. What is at issue is the vehement insistence among the ComicsGate/GamerGate/alt-right crowd that such things are "cultural Marxism" or signs of an agenda to diminish straight white males or the downfall of society. That is the crap that he was peddling.


 QUOTE:
I guess Greg finally was driven off, but if he's reading I renew my support for him to not accommodate his genuine opinions to an in-crowd, even if I don't share some of them.

No one was stopping him from expressing his opinions. Multiple people were expressing their own opinions that his opinions were toxic and wrong.

I mean the dude wrote a 10-page essay telling me to fuck off. You know what triggered him? Me saying that Gene Roddenberry and Rod Serling would be considered social justice warriors today. That's it.




Edited by Michael Roberts on 10 September 2021 at 2:22pm
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 10 September 2021 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Unfortunately I barely know what ComicsGate/GamerGate is/was, and I don't know if Kirkman's "vomit spewing" claimed affiliation or just shared some things in common. Somewhere Trump, Spiro T. Agnew and Mousey Tongue himself might say something I could agree with. I do remember saying I thought there was some logic in Iceman coming out based on his relationship with the Cloud character in the Defenders that could appear male or female. If Greg Kirkman said I was wrong for that I didn't explode in outrage at his outrage or refer to him personally as smelly or rotting or whatnot, and I don't you did either Michael.

I have been harangued by some at various places, about not fully embracing that a character male since 1963 (and had a granddaughter) didn't seem to have any logical reason to change sex, and also not having any real reactions to it. If they had at least said something had 'gone wrong' with his regeneration as they did when Davison and maybe Colin Baker took over, but they probably just did it to get publicity. Having watched all the seasons to date with a female Doctor it's been a bit better than I feared, but mostly underwhelming. It remains to be seen if it's sunk the ship even.

I think there was mostly agreement here about these hand-me-down, let's make Frosty The Snowman a black lesbian, type moves by various 'property' owners up to the current Ancient One.

"Stopping"; maybe not, but extreme personal character assassination and outright bullying I have seen. People are saying that keeps them from wanting to participate here (whereas I would stay through sheer bloody-mindedness). I don't remember your falling into that category, but perhaps adding a ditto to someone who has. We all understandably have buttons... but there are a few (and I think they are white men, seeming to be straight) that appear to have a bazillion buttons and explode with extremes of projection followed by condemnation of other human being based on some words on a screen in a way that is frankly bizarre even if somewhat common on the internet. There are definitely people being 'warriors' for minority groups they are not part of themselves, looking for villains to go extreme and toxic on. If you feel they did good in protecting people from Greg Kirkman that's one ditto, but I'm either mostly ignorant or misreading things he posted to agree he deserved personal insults.

A survivor of violent sexual abuse in childhood, I myself am supposed to have been insufficiently condemning of sexual harassment or child abuse based on some words on a screen here. Eventually I realized how entirely ridiculous that was, but especially from someone I've never even met! I sure as h*ll hope I never come off likewise as more against racism or homophobia than a brown-skinned or gay person here. I expect the vast majority have really had their fill of such ridiculous extremes as that.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 10 September 2021 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply


 QUOTE:
A survivor of violent sexual abuse in childhood, I myself am supposed to have been insufficiently condemning of sexual harassment or child abuse based on some words on a screen here./QUOTE]

I'm sorry someone made you feel that way.

[QUOTE]I sure as h*ll hope I never come off likewise as more against racism or homophobia than a brown-skinned or gay person here.

There was a thread where you came across as very high and mighty about the US racial issues, while at the same time Canada was dealing with the indigenous children graves scandal and a wave of anti-Asian hate crimes, and it was... a bit much.
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Phil Frances
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Posted: 10 September 2021 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

"the greatness of all the various Sooty tv series" ...

Ah - now you're talkin' ! Sooty was a huge part of my childhood, as it was for so many my age (and older !), and became equally popular with my own kids as well ; my favourite though was always Sweep, and one of my many prized possessions was the puppet of Sweep I was bought when my parents took us to see the show at the local theatre ...

Quite amazing how expressive the little fellow was, considering he's a fairly basic glove puppet that only communicates in squeaks.

My kids still fondly recall the story where Sweep is charged with tidying the house and basically throws an increasingly random assortment of objects into a full bathtub, including an oven and a parking meter -- on the basis they're 'out of sight, out of mind' ... as he keeps repeating to himself with each new item he stows away.

Ah - Harry and Matthew Corbett ... thankyou for the grand times, gentlemen ... !

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James Woodcock
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Posted: 10 September 2021 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

We are people. & we have good days & we have bad days. Sometimes
people really do go for others undeservedly.

But sometimes people do need to have it pointed out that what they are
saying is wrong.

I used to really look forward to what Greg would write, but he became
obsessed with how the current portrayal of women in science fiction
franchises had destroyed those franchises. It hadn’t. Bad writing was
an issue, but he was attacking the motives behind Star Wars, Trek & a
whole host of other shows with their portrayal of women. & it was
coming across that he really did have an issue with women in
particular.

It is a shame we don’t hear from Greg anymore, but towards the end, it
didn’t seem that we were hearing from the same person anyway.

Then there have been those who deliberately bait people (anyone
remember BALLS OUT MAN, BALLS OUT!?) & those too usually get
short shift, as they should do.

But having said all that, I think a lot of the anger from the Trump
threads seems to have boiled over into other threads where more
measured debate/discussion would serve us all better.
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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 10 September 2021 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Sometimes the written / typed word doesn't come across as well as a good face-to-face discussion does. I take that view as well
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 10 September 2021 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Well, the U.S. justice system presently is almost literally at a 50-50 coin flip as to what decision a judge or court will come up with. Black people are treated very badly often in the U.S. in a way that is not occuring in Canada now or in the past. The what about native abuse is fine with me as I have lots of criticism for my country and countrymen on that, but I don't see what 'a bit much' is meant to say if not intimidate someone to shut about something else?

I am not intimidating people, I am not trying to rouse hate and disgust of people. If I am 'with' Greg Kirkman, Michael Roberts or someone else on something it is childish b.s. to say I am 'as bad' as and should be ostracized and shunned. And if someone is a moderator doing that it's even worse. I left a similar comics based place where I was being cautioned without specifics to be more moderate while one moderator was liking violent rhetoric about shooting and gutting a group of Americans, and another was recycling anti-Canadian prime minister junk about him siding with terrorists.

Specifically about black lives in the U.S.; my family and I have lived, worked and played alongside black Canadians friends. The first armed police force where we are was all black, and the black families here go back farther than most of the white ones, plus the first premier was part black man James Douglas. Natives have been prey to 'cultural genocide' here but not the scale of real genocide that occurred in Califorina and other states in the past at the hands of lawless European settlers. The mounted police came before most settlers is why. Many natives found refuge in Canada at a time in the late 1800s when he U.S. military was slaughtering the tribes, most famously at Wounded Knew. The mass child graves spoken of in Canada in recent times were mostly known grave sites spanning decades of mostly virus outbreak victims of which there were some terrible years for, but yes, thousands of children were forcibly taken to religious group run residential schools in Canada and the U.S. in the past, and yes, some of these religiously ranked people in charge abused them. It is entirely fair to call that a cultural genocide. It is not however actual genocide, and the gravesites do not represent mass exterminations in any way. Unfortunately I've been having to try to calm distraught native people the often to brief media headlines have seriously upset alongside publicly speaking out for Asian Canadians as we do have some horrible idiots here. When I have mention compromise, communication, non-extremism here I have gotten Martin Luther King Jr. quoted at me as being against those qualities. This alone says to me that I am not the extremist 'edgelord' type. I make no apologies for saying black lives matter, period, nothing tagged on. I am in action and word supportive of LGBTQ+ rights and it was perhaps the greatest privileges of my life to have played a small part with the EGALE organization and on my own in the drive for same sex marriage recognition in Canada.

I think it's very true that people can project a lot into words on a screen that is not actually there. I do think attempts at bullying and ostracism based on trivialities are seen here however. My criticism of Doctor Who changing genders is not an attack on trans people, if it 'proves' anything it's that I think it might actually trivialize those lives as well as being a hand-me-down empty gesture unlike other trans characters newly created.

I like to communicate, I don't like people using tactics to shut that down, limit it, or abuse their positions to have their absolutist 'side' win. Everyone needs some slack sometimes.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 10 September 2021 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply


 QUOTE:
My kids still fondly recall the story where Sweep is charged with tidying the house and basically throws an increasingly random assortment of objects into a full bathtub, including an oven and a parking meter

That episode is up there with classic Laurel & Hardy for me! :^D

I love how various musicians have referenced Sooty and/or Sweep at times over the years... Barry Gibb, Noddy Holder, Nicko McBrain... and Peter Green! Everyone is welcome in the Sooty Friendship Circle! :^)

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 10 September 2021 at 6:21pm
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 1:01am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

 Rebecca Jansen wrote:
Greg Kirkman was someone who received some very bizarre and extreme personal attacks here ....

Yes  Let's weep for a dude who made it explicit how much he hated women and POC.  Let's shed a tear for a guy who decided to infect every thread he posted in about his "get woke, get broke" ideology.  Let's mourn Greg Kirkman, for he is righteous and unsalable. 

Good hill to die on, Rebecca.  Bully for you.  
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