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Matt Reed
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 1:38am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

 Rebecca Jansen wrote:
Natives have been prey to 'cultural genocide' here but not the scale of real genocide that occurred in Califorina and other states in the past at the hands of lawless European settlers. The mounted police came before most settlers is why. Many natives found refuge in Canada at a time in the late 1800s when he U.S. military was slaughtering the tribes, most famously at Wounded Knew. The mass child graves spoken of in Canada in recent times were mostly known grave sites spanning decades of mostly virus outbreak victims of which there were some terrible years for, but yes, thousands of children were forcibly taken to religious group run residential schools in Canada and the U.S. in the past, and yes, some of these religiously ranked people in charge abused them.

Fuck me.  Do you not see how much you rationalize?  You constantly "yes, but" anything.  And the mass grave sites in Canada weren't "mostly known" as much as you want to think they were and they weren't "mostly virus outbreak victims" as much as that may help you justify the horror. 

But, please, continue to ramble on and on and on about how righteous you are and how horrible we are south of the border.  I'm sure that makes you sleep well at night. 
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 2 post reply


 QUOTE:
The what about native abuse is fine with me as I have lots of criticism for my country and countrymen on that, but I don't see what 'a bit much' is meant to say if not intimidate someone to shut about something else?

Let me spell it out for you. As a non-white American living in America, my perspective is racism is not a uniquely American problem. America is a little more self-conscious about it because of its history with chattel slavery and various civil rights movements.

So when I see a white lady from Canada trying to insist that racism is an America problem, what I see is someone participating in systemic racism by not fully acknowledging the issue. It's not only America that needs to do better. It's everywhere. Take accountability and stop pretending that Canada isn't as bad as the US. Stop trying to lecture America and lecture white people in general.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 7:23am | IP Logged | 3 post reply


 QUOTE:
I used to really look forward to what Greg would write, but he became obsessed with how the current portrayal of women in science fiction franchises had destroyed those franchises. It hadn’t. Bad writing was an issue, but he was attacking the motives behind Star Wars, Trek & a whole host of other shows with their portrayal of women. & it was coming across that he really did have an issue with women in 
particular.

It is a shame we don’t hear from Greg anymore, but towards the end, it 
didn’t seem that we were hearing from the same person anyway.


One of the early things that Greg wrote was his criticism of the "Sins Past" Spider-Man storyline. As someone who can't stand that storyline and thought everyone was written out of character, I appreciated the complaints. But looking back at it now through the lens of where he ended up, what seemed like hyperbole at the time really does come across as him being angry that they "turned Gwen Stacy into a whore". (A word he felt comfortable slinging around.) I think those issues were there all along.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I wrote this in the wrong thread (how did I do that??), but it should have
come here:

I think it is safe to say, Britain and its offshoots, be
that America, Canada, Australia, all have to acknowledge
what happened in our past and not try to justify it - we
did wrong people, we really did.

We were not alone in doing what we did, other countries
have very similar parts of their past as well, but what
we did in the Americas, Australia and Africa was just
wrong. The methods we used were wrong. The lack of value
we placed on those lives was wrong.

We can't say 'ah, but, that country was worse than us so
we weren't that bad'. It doesn't work that way. We
slaughtered so many, enslaved so many, destroyed the
culture of so many.

It was just wrong.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 8:21am | IP Logged | 5 post reply


 QUOTE:
We can't say 'ah, but, that country was worse than us so 
we weren't that bad'. It doesn't work that way.

Exactly!
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

What I see is juvenile exaggeration, building of straw men to attack and destroy. So Canada is every bit as fubared then, happy now? Let's bring everyone down so no country might have the answers for another?

I have an acquaintance who went from making her own unique jewelry, and a living, to getting high all the time now and hating/fearing white people for mass graves of a newly discovered genocide of children. Which is half-truth to not true... enjoy! Don't look for the helpers as Mister Rogers said, just tear and rip and bloviate outrage and show what snowflakes really are while we go off a cliff that might be avoided. I can take abuse, pile on all you like, but I won't change from wanting real information instead of caricatures and a vicious circle of hopeless blame.

Guess, what, Rebecca Jansen is not the problem. Canada or my mostly knowing about it either. I've gone to a lot of work not to be, and keep working at it. I'm proud of some things my country is doing because I'm a long time active participant in it, and I'm as critical about it's mistakes as well, everyone should be their own worst critic (look to the timber in your own eye). Are you working at it, or just adding to the misery? Feels good? You don't seem to be very happy or enthusiastic about much.

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 12 September 2021 at 10:43am
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Canada was worse in how we treated Japanese-Canadians during WWII. Canada was worse in taking in Jewish refugees from Europe. I know this because I look to other countries to compare to. I've read, and talked with people who experienced the times first hand when I was fortunate enough to be able to, and Canada was worse, a lot worse on Jewish refugee acceptance. The U.S. was less terrible than my country.

I used to think the U.S. political system was more balanced and able to accomplish things, and I think that was true for quite awhile. I want it to return to something at least close to that dynamic.

I have family, friends, loved ones in the U.S. and been very involved with it all my life, why would I simplistically want to bash or tear it down? It's real concern/alarm and the buck can stop there as far as I'm concerned. I'm not at 'war', but in looking for 'enemies', if you think myself or Canada qualify you are way out there. You seem to be in a place right now where all other countries and half of your own can be some kind of enemy to be absolutely destroyed... even people on a forum for comic book art fans?

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 12 September 2021 at 10:54am
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Jim Petersman
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Plus Gwen Stacy becoming a whore is not a problem for me to read someone say, no. I get the meaning despite not having read the comic, can think of similar examples, and allow some slack. JB had a major flame fest at him for something similar about an actress in the Fantastic Four movie. So as only a white woman, am I allowed to be less outraged about a sexist reference than males? Damn straight there is an extreme PC 'warrior' brigade posturing and flexing ego all over the internet, being super serious, lacking humor and balance inappropriately, just as there is an alt-Right bunch... and they apparently cannot see how much mirror-images of each other they are.

The more personal bile you expend over folks you've never actually met in real life the more toxic... I can honestly say if I had been a half as venomous as some feel emboldened to be I'd truly be ashamed. Now if I have hit some button, am I the only one? How many buttons do you have and what percentage of your time do you spend setting others to rights? If it was just myself and Greg Kirkman 'causing' trouble... but that's like these Al Sharpton stirring people up type morons, and that's the timber in your own eye... becoming very much like the people you hate so deeply?

The Kamloops residential school is not the Tulsa massacre that made the news around the same time by any scale. Canada has a national counseling hotline for people 24 hours and we've had many Native only and all welcome healing in-person events... educate me... what has been getting done for the descendants of the black population of Tulsa? Do you even pay attention to your own country as much as a 'foreign', or 'other' white woman? I'd love if it were true by the way, genuinely. My city was founded by black people fleeing the U.S. from the mid 1800s onward, I grew up next door and next desk with brown skinned people, and Asian, and my own family from England and Holland dates as more recent arrivals than most of them. I believe in variety and multiculturalism but work to be aware of it's realities that must be faces, and I have stood up publicly when it was difficult... for RCMP to wear Sikh turbans in uniform, for same sex marriage respect and equality... rah rah me, but I have walked the walk and learned much along the way. Nobody can simply take that away from me for a bottom level internet squabble. If my ass needs kicking kick away, I'm not running, it's does go both ways so why be all shocked or outraged that it does.

I don't see calls for real violence or banning/cancelling so at least we're good that way, I hope. Good luck to everyone. Fuck Yoda, trying is doing something as is just knowing if that's all one can do sometimes, because both have to come before building something more positive than 'me me 'me.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

For thread drift, can we just blame Sooty? Please? Aw c'mon...

Well, how about Sweep?
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Are people over-'splaining, or do they seek to demonize or personally offend and attack? This thread started straying with a few people saying someone or other, doing just that, had caused them to 'go quiet' and/or feel unwelcome.

If "winning" on the internet is intimidating or silencing, that doesn't really work if you're trying it on someone who has more to them than talking the talk. I don't see where I've disrespected or denigrated others. If I am a bully with little but innuendo, like those who get obsessed with bringing me down a peg or in total, list examples of this better than my saying Canada is less messed up in some areas than the U.S. I don't go in for point by point or out of context picking of nits personally, never going to happen. If I write something that causes offense (I am sometimes very long-winded in hope of avoiding it), have you really put it in a proper perspective? Words on a screen. Not being forced to read them. I'm not in a relationship with you, nor representative of anyone but myself. I'm very much not a type of much, mostly felt an oddball all my life and at a certain age started not caring so much for what I can't control anyway and just accepting and sometimes enjoying. I'm unlikely to fit into whatever the current political peg holes are other than 'independent'. I once voted Progressive Conservative, a party that no longer exists. I went on to vote Liberal and then socialist NDP (National Democratic Party). Projecting upon that is going to be complicated even for another Canadian and I doubt I'd be able to.

What I value about this forum is I can write intelligently about comics but also more fully without compromises imposed like so many other places supposedly with 'no politics' are trying to insist on in order to keep some sort of 'peace' (and many are failing anyway). I try sincerely to follow rules. Who is lashing out and condemning? Who is trying to explain and shed light and communicate?

I'll take a posting break from explaining (inflaming?). I really don't want to be tiresome but I'm sure I have been as the topic of 'me' can be tiresome even to me. As usual, I do thank all readers and moderators for any tolerance. :^)

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 12 September 2021 at 12:40pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 12 September 2021 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

 Rebecca Jansen wrote:
If I myself ever seem poisonous or simply wrong, anyone can just say so to me. We all are like cars with blind spots and need people with other points of view to not hit the garbage cans (I learned this from watching that Hoarders show and reading about dyslexic musicians and comic artists)

So I guess not?


 QUOTE:
Who is lashing out and condemning?

In the last page and a half? It's been you.


Edited by Michael Roberts on 12 September 2021 at 1:03pm
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