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Scott Wagahoff
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 150
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| Posted: 23 March 2024 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 1
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I often think about how amazing and incredibly intricate the body is and how a certain section gives all the credit to a "creator".
Kind of how you're supposed to enjoy comic books. But if you start thinking too deeply about the hows and the whys then perhaps you've outgrown them.
So, to me, once you start trying to reason out how a single creator made all living things, then maybe you're too old for religion...?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132295
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| Posted: 23 March 2024 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 2
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I like it!Most of us are indoctrinated when we’re very young. Reason isn’t fully part of our skill set. So we accept all kinds of fairy tales at face value. I’ve made the comparison of Jesus and Santa. Magical figures we’re taught about by the same authorities, assuring us both are real. But there comes a time when we are expected to abandon our belief in one of these beings—the one we’ve actually met. If all organized religions were subject to the same scrutiny as Santa Claus we’d likely be rid of them very quickly. But, of course, giving up Santa doesn’t carry the fear of horrifying punishment that religion instills in us.
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Scott Wagahoff
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 150
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| Posted: 23 March 2024 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 3
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"Be good or you'll be drowned in a snowbank by elves for eternity!"
I almost got in trouble at work once when by sheer luck I had been nearby when someone needed something throughout the day and they said "Wow, you're everywhere!". I responded without thinking "kinda like Jesus and Santa!". Fortunately they found it funny.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132295
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| Posted: 23 March 2024 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | 4
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I recently watched a Jimmy Carr video in which he noted that Christians believe their salvation lies with a benevolent zombie. Literal minded as I sometimes am, I rejected this hypothesis. Zombies, properly, are animated (by magic) corpses, incapable of independent actions. Mindless puppets, basically. Jesus, on the other hand, rose from the dead with all of his faculties intact and his flesh uncorrupted. This after a ceremony in which he compelled his followers to eat his flesh and drink his blood.* Jesus is a vampire. ____________ *Literally. In fact, the literal nature of this is central to the faith.
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1649
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| Posted: 23 March 2024 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 5
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I think it’s mean-spirited to mock the faithful. Remember, these are people
who, without a moment’s hesitation, are willing to selflessly send out
thoughtless prayers to anyone in trouble.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 23 March 2024 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 6
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Never have understood prayer. If God is PERFECT, and his Plan is PERFECT, everything that happens is PERFECT.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4526
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| Posted: 23 March 2024 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 7
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Side-stepping the son; the father has at least seemed an absentee one, especially at critical moments... like genocides. Thinking about that is what really knocked the whole thing down for me. Still, I can find churches very beautiful and have admiration for some people who say they do believe. Acting on faith in the best sense is positive in my experience even if the supposed inspiration is absent to me, perhaps even more admirable if the actor in faith has serious doubts. I am very skeptical about altruism, probably since reading Rand. I suppose she might say the person acting on faith does it because selfishly it makes them feel good about themself? I'll take more of it either way, but in the quiet, not praying in public, manner.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 23 March 2024 at 4:27pm
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Craig Earl
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1251
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| Posted: 23 March 2024 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | 8
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Never have understood prayer. If God is PERFECT, and his Plan is PERFECT, everything that happens is PERFECT
-------------
Always had a problem with 'PERFECT'.
As a kid, I was always told that 'practice makes perfect.'
At the same time as being told 'nobody's perfect.'
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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 808
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| Posted: 23 March 2024 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 9
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"If God is PERFECT, and his Plan is PERFECT, everything that happens is PERFECT."
I don't think that follows. If there is a God, and he allows imperfect beings (us) to exercise free will, then a lot of things that happen will not be perfect; especially if perfect = good.
Isn't the purpose of Jesus to overcome our imperfections? A believer would argue that God's plan is perfect because he knew we would make mistakes, and that's why the plan included a savior.
To me, that is at least logical. I've never understood Christians who believe that Adam and Eve were supposed to remain in the Garden of Eden forever. If sin wasn't part of God's plan, then wasn't the plan defeated when they were cast out?...in which case, Jesus would be the backup plan?
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1649
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| Posted: 23 March 2024 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 10
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John Wickett wrote:
Isn't the purpose of Jesus to overcome our
imperfections? |
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Nope. He, and the convoluted mess of the “Holy Trinity” were invented to
allow the clergy to peddle a religion and a God that were designed
specifically by and for Jews to a broader audience.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132295
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| Posted: 23 March 2024 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | 11
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If there is a God, and he allows imperfect beings (us) to exercise free will, then a lot of things that happen will not be perfect; especially if perfect = good.••• Again, God = perfect. God’s Plan = perfect. Anything we do = part of Plan.
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Byron Graham
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 927
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| Posted: 24 March 2024 at 3:20am | IP Logged | 12
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Sometimes when people learn that I'm an atheist, they ask what drove me to make that choice. Their assumption is that I started out as a believer. I never did believe. But lately, when they ask why I'm an atheist, I say "This is the way God made me."
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