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Darren Taylor Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 5994
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 2:38am | IP Logged | 1
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I think some people can't differentiate between an artists style and what is actually drawn on the page. So they end up saying that faces or hands, whatever, look similar drawn by Artist A. When really they are seeing a solid style. I've been amazed by the attention to "looks" John gives comics, right down to the "morphing" [or mutation, whatever you thinks more apt;-) ] of his own style to best fit the feel of the title.
Edited by Darren Taylor on 27 May 2005 at 2:51am
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Andrew Kneath Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 2275
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 2:43am | IP Logged | 2
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Of course JB's faces do not all look the same. However JB's faces all look like they are drawn by John Byrne!
The fact that JB's faces are so recognisable as his style is probably the reason for the ignorant idea that they all look the same.
IMO that is JB's best trick as an artist, all his faces look like real people with real personalities behind them. (What John refers to as 'Verisimilitude'.)
My only problem with JB's faces is when they are inked by other people and that effect is lost.
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Darren Taylor Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 5994
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 2:58am | IP Logged | 3
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Andrew Kneath wrote:
My only problem with JB's faces is when they are inked by other people and that effect is lost.
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That's one of the great problems with inking. One errant line or poor line choice from the inker can change purturbed to seathing. I took the decision on the back of reading a thread on the old Magnus board with JB that when it comes to inking faces (not hair, ears but the actual "mask") I'd follow the artists lines including tapering more absolutely than anywhere else. Also an inker doesn't need to read the plot to ink the pencils and as much as you might think you'd "read" it from the pencils you can sink in the pencils so much so that the story is not on your horizon. That's why it's important to put some faith in the pencillers ability to tell a story and that most pencillers are precious about the faces they draw because the face communicates a large percentage of the story as it unfolds.
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Lars Johansson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 6113
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 3:51am | IP Logged | 4
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Generally, about the initial statement about faces, what the guy who
stated it don't understand: when faces are drawn in a comic book you
don't have a live model there, since it's not going to be a portrait,
it's going to be a comic book. Artists, particularily comic book
artists don't use live models in order to not make the art look like
portraits. And this is done on purpose. If any comic book artist had
used a model and painted a portrait it would be very visible that it
was the case. If that comic shop dealer wants to have his portrait
painted on a canvas he has to go to an artists who does just that.
Furthermore, when it comes to storytelling, if there are more elements
in the picture than tells the story, they should not be there, and the
facial expressions are there for a reason, not because there are going
to be lifelike thousands of different faces that that guy can count,
since that is not what the story is about.
Anyway, there was a Superman (?) issue by Mr. Byrne where one page was
just different faces who had been killed/raped by a villain, tragic
story. Different people, direerent ages, even more diverse than the
multiple Perry Whites/Reed Richards there.
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Thanos Kollias Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 5009
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 4:20am | IP Logged | 5
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I would accept as argument that JB has changed quite a bit from what he did in the past, especially with the human face, and that someone who liked the older Byrne faces no longer likes what he is doing. My brother is in this list of people. He believes that JB is still great and kicking but he doesn;t like his approach to faces and figures anymore. To state however, that he draws one face, especially currently, is plain stupid.
JB's art is at its best for a long, long time, if you ask me....
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James Stewart Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 3085
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 4:23am | IP Logged | 6
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JB faces all look the same. Never heard such Kak in my life. If it's not one thing it's another. Never mind JB it's just another fart in the wind.
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John Mietus Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9704
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 5:00am | IP Logged | 7
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Andrew Kneath wrote:
Of course JB's faces do not all look the same.
However JB's faces all look like they are drawn by John Byrne! |
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Exactly.
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John Byrne
Robot Wrangler
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 102266
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 5:33am | IP Logged | 8
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Most comicbook artists have certian visual "tics" that recur in their work. Jack Kirby recycled faces to the point that they became known as "Kirby's Kast of Karacters". George Wunder, one of my favorite artists when I was a kid, really did use variations on the same face for all his characters, male or female -- so much so that when I first started reading his "Terry and the Pirates" I followed the strip for several weeks waiting for some kind of explanation of why the people all had the same face. Mike Mignola (a superb artist in all respects) gives almost all his characters the same distinctive mouth -- his own!Most artists recycle the same "heroic" faces, male and female, and I will admit when I was beginning my career I had a very limited catalog of these. There was not a whole lot to distinguish between Danny Rand in IRON FIST and Warren Worthington in THE CHAMPIONS, for instance. But this was something I worked hard to overcome, expecially after a (previously quoted) discussion with Dave Cockrum, wherein he mentioned that one of his goals on LEGION OF SUPERHEROES was to individualize the character's faces to the point that "they could all be naked" and still recognizable. As noted, the inking can make a difference. From time to time I have been vexed with inkers who, I have been known to comment, seem to think their job is to just miss the line the penciler has laid down. Inking to the inside or outside of a line -- especially on mouths and eyes -- can completely change a face. Toss in an inker who has a limited range himself -- "This is how I ink eyes, this is how I ink mouths" -- and the problem is compounded. All the more so when we factor in how many inkers have learned to ink without ever having learned to pencil! Bottom line -- sure, I should obviously just ignore this twaddle, since it is so self-evidently untrue -- but how often in a week (or a day) do you encounter somebody running thru the litany of falsehoods about myself and/or my work? Byrne never draws backgrounds. All Byrne's faces look the same. DC won't let Byrne ink his own work. Byrne is a racist. Byrne hates the fans. Etc, etc. Sometimes, I feel distinctly as though I am a "voice crying in the wilderness" when I try to combat these lies, but if I let them slide -- as once I did with "Byrne's stuff doesn't sell anymore" -- they quickly become canonical. Especially by the time they reach the twenty-third or -fourth hand iteration on the internet.
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Chuck Wells Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1244
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 6:07am | IP Logged | 9
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I'd like to have been a gremlin sitting upon Matt's shoulder at that store as that conversation occurred. I would have encouraged him to thank the store owner/employee by making the following statement:
"It's better to remain silent and let your customers think that you are stupid and foolish, rather than speak and thus remove all doubt!"
John Byrne has a remarkable range of facial types and expressions. It's one of his many strengths and makes his comics efforts endlessly fun. As fans of his work we all know this, and if we are in the minority, at least we are in good company.
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Brian Rhodes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3307
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 6:07am | IP Logged | 10
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So, who's the hottie in the middle row, left side?
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Guest79877180 Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2387
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 11
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John Mietus wrote:
Andrew Kneath wrote:
Of course JB's faces do not all look the same. However JB's faces all look like they are drawn by John Byrne!
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Exactly. |
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Ditto.
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Peter Hicks Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1891
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 7:07am | IP Logged | 12
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John Byrne wrote:
All the more so when we factor in how many inkers have learned to ink without ever having learned to pencil! |
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I would have thought any artist who could ink professionally would have at least the basic survival skills in pencilling. Without dissing any current inkers, are there any from the past that we might be surprised to learn couldn't pencil their way out of a wet paper bag? Besides Vince Colletta.
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