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Brian Linnen
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 1  

 Jason Fulton wrote:

 

Jason,

That was easily the ugliest cover I have seen in quite some time.  The art inside wasn't quite as bad - it was still very "Image-ish" - but God, the two faces on the cover are practically identical!  For the life of me, I can't understand why the word "superstar" is attached to Churchill's name.

Brian

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Jason Fulton
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 2  

I'm guessing you could apply the 'his faces look identical' to just about any of these newfangled 'superstar' artists....but to JB? That's crazy talk.

Edited to add qualifier.



Edited by Jason Fulton on 27 May 2005 at 10:52am
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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 3  

 John Byrne wrote:
...all those people look like brothers and
sisters...

*****


Are we not, truly, each other's brothers and sisters?





That reminds me - I have to feed my imaginary unicorn, Rusty.
He eats invisible oats from a magical glass trough.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 4  

Come on people now
Smile on your brother
Everybody get together
Try to love one another right now


*****

I'd like to buy the World a Coke,
And keep it company. . .
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 5  

And he calls me the hippie, granola eating, tree hugging, Hollywood fag...

Sheesh!

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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 11:14am | IP Logged | 6  

Don't bring me down, man.
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Andrew Kneath
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 7  

 Brian Linnen wrote:
For the life of me, I can't understand why the word "superstar" is attached to Churchill's name.

Everybody is a "Superstar" now in comics.

I was quite pleased recently to see the excellent "Tom Grummett" described as a superstar artist.

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James C. Taylor
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 8  

Grow apple trees and honey bees and snow white turtle doves...
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 9  

 Andrew Kneath wrote:
I was quite pleased recently to see the excellent "Tom Grummett" described as a superstar artist.


It's about time. He deserves it. All it takes for a good artist to reach that status is to find the right book to gain recognition. Grummett just wasn't getting it by doing books like Superboy.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 10  

One of the things I have noticed about these know-nothing fanboys and the mantras they spout is that those mantras are usually way out of date. Consider the "no backgrounds" charge. There was a period during my FF/ALPHA days that I was forced by circumstances to cut back on backgrounds (it had to do with the way the pages were being lettered) and it is those pages to which many of my detractors still point -- 20 years later. That's when they're not pulling six or seven "backgroundless" panels from a job with close to 140 panles in it!

The problem with all these bits of dogma is that they are just that -- dogma. They are ways for the True Believers to show how Wise and All-Knowing they are, and few dare challenge them lest they be viewed as unknowing fools. Abraham Lincoln said it was better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. The internet has reversed this.

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Jacob P Secrest
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 11  

 Bill Lukash wrote:

Jacob,
Your membership in the Jacob Secrest Fan Club is oficially suspended
until you read the Byrne FF run.
Jacob Secrest Fan Club President,
Jacob Secrest


LOL.

Dear Mr Secrest,

I have been very busy over the past few weeks and will continue to be
until the end of the school year, until then I will not be able to read much
of anything not entitled "A Man for All Seasons", I am not complaining
because that is a very good book, but all FF reading will have to wait
another two weeks.

Jacob Secrest Fan Club President,
Dark Lord Secrest (I have no idea who the hell you are)
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 12  

 Brian Rhodes wrote:
So, who's the hottie in the middle row, left side?

Nevermind.  Just read Action 827.  Late to the party again!

 

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Jacob P Secrest
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 13  

 Jason Fulton wrote:


I hate this cover soooo much, nothing wrong with it, except the identical
faces of Superman and Captain Marvel.

It just bugs me to no end.

If JB did this, I would by no means read his comics.
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Ian Evans
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | 14  

Jack Kirby's faces were far far far more homogenous than JBs...and he was jack Kirby

Nuff said?

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John Griggs Jr
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Posted: 27 May 2005 at 7:33pm | IP Logged | 15  

 Jacob P Secrest wrote:
 Jason Fulton wrote:


I hate this cover soooo much, nothing wrong with it, except the identical
faces of Superman and Captain Marvel.

It just bugs me to no end.

If JB did this, I would by no means read his comics.
I saw this on a spinner rack at Border's, it made think of this thread.  The irony is that DC acquired Captain Marvel, after a lawsuit, that he was a rip off of Superman.  I guess that its all right now that their twins.  How could an editor let this go out?

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Glenn Brown
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Posted: 28 May 2005 at 12:04am | IP Logged | 16  

The comments made by detractors are not based on facts.  They are expressions of personal contempt, masked in the form of criticisms of JB's/your work.

As such, you can offer example after example to refute the negative statement and it won't change the perception, since it isn't based on the work to begin with.

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Mig Da Silva
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Posted: 28 May 2005 at 5:43am | IP Logged | 17  

Man, the infamous John Byrne faces!

How DARES he? How contemptous is he of his readers?

That all faces LOOK the same!

He draws eyes and noses in all of them!!

And mouths too!

And always the same expressions: either laughter, pain, fear, contempt, courage, thoughtfulness, bliss, greed, surprise, tedium... always with the same human limited expressions!

Oh it really peeves me off that Mr Byrne is incapable of EXPERIMENTING and ocasionally leave and eye out, or put a nose in a forehead, now THAT'S creative...

Let's face it, you see one human face, you've seen them all.

And why did Mr Byrne drew the FF as if they were caucasians, merely because they were caucasians, hm? One should be an Indian, the other one Black, and one of them should have either speech impediment or a knee problem!

Continuity, continuity, continuity. Continuity is for schmucks. Look at how movies change everything and makes puddles of money! Spider-Man spitting web out of his ass! Now that's real, baby!

And crack ho Jessica Alba sels a lot more than WASPy sue next door!

Get on with the times, start drawing noses on foreheads! Enough with the old fashioned, stale, uncreative art. Comics come printed in glossy now ya know, throw some glitter in there!

[disclaimer: msacras s'ti, pey]
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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 May 2005 at 6:36am | IP Logged | 18  

And crack ho Jessica Alba sels a lot more than WASPy sue next door!

****

That's a bit.... harsh, wouldn't you say?

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Rey Madrinan
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Posted: 28 May 2005 at 11:27pm | IP Logged | 19  

 I kind of find it odd that a lot of fans need someone to hate in the industry. Not only do they not buy thier stuff, they complain, berate, and even say things that are obviously fabricated.

 I  will never understand why a medium filled with noble characters has a fanbase that is predominatly negative and critical..

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Ian Evans
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Posted: 29 May 2005 at 5:15am | IP Logged | 20  

That is what adolescent boys are like though Rey...and that is the comic book super-heroes natural market...adolescent boys either idolise or vilify with no middle ground, and despite obvious exceptions, older comic book fans are adolescent boys with bald spots and paunches...add to this JBs penchant for his own brand of soothsaying, and this is a recipe for negativity from some quarters...whatever we think of those who spout this kind of nonsense, its cause is easy to identify
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Kevin Tuma
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Posted: 30 May 2005 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 21  

 Matt Tauber wrote:

 He said that Byrne wasn't as popular as he once was, partially because JB doesn't "try as hard" with his art.  He then proceeded with his theory on how JB once learned to draw "one face", which was Reed Richards, and that all of his other faces, including the women, were variations on that face.

I really wish I could say what I think here--but that would require comparatively trashing every other comic book penciller who has been popular since about, oh let's say, 1990...and I don't want to name any names.

I will say this much: I think Image/Wizard-Fave-Rave type art almost singlehandedly destroyed the US comic book industry. The comic book medium is an art medium, requiring talented and unique cartoonists. Comic art in the 1990s plunged into a sewer of stiff anatomy, phony gimmicks, and ripped-off stylistic flourishes. At one point in the mid-90s, there had to be at least four dozen artists working who drew like Todd McFarlane and Jim Lee, and most of them could only draw one face--a face they plagiarized from another artist, via lightbox or mimickry.

It shocks me, after a decade and half of suffering through such amateurish dreck, to hear someone criticize Byrne's artwork on the basis that it looks "cookie-cutter". JB has a wide range of faces in his work and can depict a wide range of body types as well. 

John Byrne has consistently been the most talented penciller since Jack Kirby. I wish the comic book industry had at least a dozen artists with his talent. Even a half dozen would help. Maybe if there were a few Byrne clones, the sagging sales numbers would go up!

-kev

 

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Ed Deans.
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Posted: 30 May 2005 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 22  

 Jason Fulton wrote:




Here's a contrast... Byrne (inked by ??? ) detail from a Legends miniseries
promo piece:

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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 May 2005 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | 23  

Not a good contrast. Much to my annoyance, Kesel redrew the Superman and Captain Marvel faces in LEGENDS. My versions of both were far less angular -- especially in Cap's case.

My Cap looks like this:

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Kevin Tuma
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Posted: 30 May 2005 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 24  

 

[/QUOTE]

Here's a contrast... Byrne (inked by ??? ) detail from a Legends miniseries
promo piece:

[/QUOTE]

 

Gotta love JB's Superman.  I do like what Curt Swan and Grummett and Jurgens and Gammill have occasionally done with the Man of Steel, but Byrne's Superman is the quintessential Superman, in my opinion. He sums up the entire character with just a few deft strokes.

Byrne's Superman is simply the best. Like Lobster Tail garnished by Filet Mignon. It just doesn't get any better.

Not kissing up to you, JB, this is how I really feel. Your Superman was the artistic pinnacle of the character's 67-year history.

-Kev

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Brett C. Flechaus
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Posted: 31 May 2005 at 3:10am | IP Logged | 25  

All in all a pretty silly accusation against JB.  Yes, he has a recognizable
style.  I can almost always spot a Byrne face, therefore there should be
some similarities between a JB  Reed Richards, and any other JB mid
thirties white character,( as should be expected ).  Maybe, that's what this
person was trying to say. Even still, So what?  I remember reading some of those early Buscema Avengers issues that we may chuckle at a bit, because of the way that Steve Rogers, Hank Pym & Clint Barton all looked like clones
when they appeared in a scene together in civies.  It did'nt take away from
those issues in the least & no one feels the need to character assasinate
John Buscema.

Seems to me this guy probably was one of those people who never forgave
the move from Uncanny to the F.F.    It must seem weird to some of
the younger fans, but as JB  has noted, there really was ( is ) a palpable
anger towards JB for leaving the X-Men. ( I went thru it myself )  It really
colored JB in the minds of  a huge segment of fandom.  To me it's the only
thing that might explain all this venom against an artist who:

1. dominated marvel in the mid to late seventies
2. drew one of the greatest comic runs of all time: x-men
3. had that 2nd only to Lee/Kirby FF run
4. dragged Superman into the present ( & out of the doldrums )
5. somehow made She-hulk & Wonder Woman actually worth reading
6. Had a ( very ) solid independant run ( Dark Horse Next Men )
7. continues to create,innovate & experiment thru to today:  Lost Generation
    Generations, Hidden Years, Namor,Spiderman,Doom Patrol, Demon.
8. And, he's on time, a pro, writer,inker,penciler & all around creator

What does the guy have to do to get people off of his back ????

...and all this praise is from me, a dyed in the wool George Perez man, but
you've got to tip your hat to JB....his accomplishments can't be denied.
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