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John Byrne
Robot Wrangler
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 102266
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 1
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William Goldman, in his books on screenwriting, emphasizes that good writers start their stories as deep into the action as possible -- and likewise start their scenes as deep into the scene as possible. (Yes, "decompression" is better known as "lazy writing".)Just today I had an example of this excellent advice crop up in my own work. I am plotting out a story which involves some time travel -- I know, a real shock coming from me! -- and as I have drawn near to putting pencil to paper I have found my starting point moving deeper and deeper into the story. This is planned as a single issue story, and originally I was thinking of a more-or-less linear approach, with the characters discovering a reason for them to go into the past, then setting up the means of doing so, then arriving in the past. Then I found myself thinking I could start with them setting up the means of travel, and commenting on why they were needing to do so. Then, just a few moments ago, I realized there was absolutely no reason to start any earlier than the characters already in the past, already into the story. The time travel is implicit, the reason can be tossed off with a couple of lines. Thank you, William Goldman!
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Flavio Sapha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Brazil Posts: 12912
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | 2
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Read Denny O'Neil enunciate this rule in the DC book on writing comics.
Instantly, I got flashes from his stories from which I could tell he had always
been a strict adept of COMPRESSION. Shall we raise a glass for a great
writer? (yes, posting after beer session once again...shame on me!)
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Darren Taylor Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 5994
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 3
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Not knowing the story, nor wanting to at this point;-) I'd have said that effectively you could start the story all the way up to the moment before the actual "reveal", so long as there are no actual "spoilers" in the chosen scene.
In fact the chosen scene can be so chosen as to provide a "red herring" making the reader feel that the story, when recapped, is going to go direction a) when all along the writer intends it to go direction b).
Your 'love affair' with Time Travel stories always provides great story-telling so I'll look forward to seeing this. Sometimes though I like the fact that starting the story from the beginning can add way more strength. For example:
Story opens with Person-B opening a window to break-in to a hotel room and a piece of paper blowing out into the street. Person-A is apparantly happily married. Someone apparantly kills his wife. Person-B is arrested. Person-A wants to go back in time to stop Person-B from killing his wife (Sounds like a Van-Damme film already-LOL). Person-A builds time machine and goes back. Person-A confronts Person-B before they kill his wife and kills Person-B in the struggle. Person-A goes back to the future and his wife is still dead. Person-A [and the reader] discover that the wife had infact commited suicide from the outset and Person-B was the 'red herring' and her suicide note was blown out of the window in the opening scene.
Technically you could start the story at the fight between both A & B. I guess in fact you could have it start as late as him coming back from the past and running to see his wife and her still being dead. The reader would be "still?" then go back to go forward. I suppose actually it's a taste thing!
I've yet to read a bad-time travel story from you so I'm quite excited.
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Ian Evans Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 September 2004 Posts: 2433
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 4
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Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons plays with narrative structure in a very interesting way - and is a great, fun, exciting read to boot...heartily recommended
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Michael Hogan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2052
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 5
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JB,
I am in the process of writing a novel, and, taking this advice to heart when you first posted it some time ago, I have the victim show up dead in the second paragraph (the first paragraph describes the setting). How's that?
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Rey Madrinan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 865
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | 6
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I remeber telling someone that I thought JMS "Strange" mini-series wasn't that good because thier was so much buildup, a lot of things happened that could have been cleared away. I was quickly reprimended for it of course, but I couldn't understand why the writer would think that somebody who picked up a comic supposdly about the sorcerer supreme would want to read 3 issues about a foppish surgeon...
Its good to know you haven't bought into this crap, JB. I look forward to whatever you are writing, probably.
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Todd Hembrough Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 4172
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think that The Sopranos is the culmination and absolute apex of this
technique. I find myself thinking of Goldman every ten minutes
when I watch that show. It is like a seminar on the technique.
T
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Brendan Howard Byrne Robotics Member
FAQ Master Supreme
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4943
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 8
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I'm a big fan of the "start late, leave early" style of writing. People who read my short stories are often horrified when they get to the end and realize that I didn't wrap everything up in a neat little bow.
To see an example of this to the extreme, see John Sayles' LIMBO.
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Flavio Sapha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Brazil Posts: 12912
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 9
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It's interesting that you mention the Sopranos, Todd. I read David Chase on
how he enjoyed the fact that TV -as opposed to cinema, I guess- allowed
for "dreams, musings, little bits that lead nowhere". Hence, I always watch
the series with this in mind, trying to spot the scenes they did "just 'cause".
I am not saying there's any "fat" in a Sopranos episode, mind you, every bit
is so cool. I just never thought of it as an example of "tight storytelling".
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John Mietus Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9704
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 10
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Michael Hogan wrote:
JB,
I am in the process of writing a novel, and, taking this advice to heart
when you first posted it some time ago, I have the victim show up dead in
the second paragraph (the first paragraph describes the setting). How's
that? |
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Switch the order of the paragraphs and start out running.
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Ed Aycock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1004
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 11
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That reminds me of some excellent advice a professor once gave me. When you're writing a paper, write everything and then cross out the first paragraph and the last paragraph. It worked perfectly (as least in English lit, where there are so many laborious first paragraphs such as, "Shakespeare's 'Hamlet' is the story of a young man ..." and last paragraphs such as "There are many lessons to be learned ...") It's amazing how much more muscular a story or essay can become when the intro is eliminated.
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Darragh Greene Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 1812
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Posted: 07 June 2005 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | 12
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The Ancients advised beginning a story in medias res, that is, in the
middle of things. It's been the standard approach to epics and adventure
stories for over 2,500 years. How do you follow Homer?
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