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Andrew Kneath Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 2275
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | 1
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It's a very delicate thing to discuss something like this. Perhaps a poll is not the most tactful way of doing it?
This is not though just a case of just not liking an inkers style and being bitchy about it. Nelson is redrawing the pencils of one of the most sucessful artists in the business who has a 20 year association with the character.
Now either Nelson is taking it upon himself to do this or he is being asked to do it. Either way it really is not good enough.
We pay for the book expecting to get art pencilled by Byrne and that is what we should get.
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8032
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 2
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Yeah - see there are other JB inkers I didn't like yet I would not have posted such a poll for them, since even if I didn't like the end result I realize that they did the job they were supposed to. But changing faces, poses, body parts, etc, is way over the line IMO.
I suppose I could have phrased it as "Do you like Action's inks?" but to me simply not liking inks in itself is not grounds for replacement. I was curious to see where people stood on a more extreme action.
Not like I want to see Nelson unemployed. No matter what, he's a talented artist - so I don't think he'd have much trouble getting another gig. Hell, like Mark said above, I'd be perfectly happy with him if only he didn't keep "breaking the rules". But after 4 issues it doesn't look like it's going to stop.
Edited by Vincent Valenti on 11 August 2005 at 5:03pm
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 3
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Hey I don't think it's a big deal to ask for Nelson's job. The
arbitrary redrawing is probably a ploy to get Byrne fired from
Action.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 11 August 2005 at 4:30pm
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Andrew Kneath Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 2275
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 4
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Yes Joe, call us paranoid but sometimes it really is difficult not to believe that people are out to sabotage Johns books.
I keep reading criticisms of the art in Action that blame John and make no mention of the fact that there is an Inker involved in the process, let alone that he is redrawing.
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Ed Deans. Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 November 2004 Location: United States Posts: 857
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | 5
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Andrew Kneath wrote:
make no mention of the fact that there is an Inker involved in the process, let alone that he is redrawing. |
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Well I could've saved myself the trouble and used your graphic in the
'pencils available' topic. Oh well. I just got to page 5 and see
panel 3 there also Green Latern, Flash are redrawn. You see, the
thing that bothers me is that so much *storytelling* happens in the
faces. I simply don't understand what's going on here. All
I can say is THANK YOU, John Byrne, for allowing your fans to see your
unaltered pencils.
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Joe Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6603
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 6
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I'm not buying unless JB drawz it.
JB, are you follwing the editor to his new book?
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Frank Brannan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 387
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | 7
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Eh, personally if you showed me just those two panels, pencils and
inks, I'd say both should be gone, but elsewhere in the books I like
the pencils, and like the finished work.
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Jon Godson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 January 2005 Posts: 2468
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 8
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When I buy a book with John Byrne pencils, I want to SEE John Byrne pencils.
It's as simple as that.
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Steve Merritt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 321
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | 9
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I liked Stucker better this issue. Nelson is not bad, but seeing the original pencils takes him down several notches. The pencils aren't available at the time of the comics's release. That's why I waited and wanted to give him a chance. But you can't keep messing with the living legend's pencils.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 35734
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 11:17pm | IP Logged | 10
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Joe Zhang wrote:
Hey I don't think it's a big deal to ask for Nelson's job. The arbitrary redrawing is probably a ploy to get Byrne fired from Action. |
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Since we have nothing to back this up from any credible source, I think this is pretty nasty speculation to be tossing around about anyone in the business. Sure, we can all agree that the changes in JB's artwork sucks, but there's really no need to call someone out in this manner especially with no proof whatsoever. That kind of stuff belongs on boards other than the JBF.
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14186
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | 11
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When Nelson is not redrawing faces, expressions, and body positioning I do like how he works with JB's pencils. If the redrawing can be stopped I think he makes a good inker on Action. The really wierd thing is certain redraws look to be the same from previous issues. The one posted earlier (Superman screaming) looks to be the same used in the first issue of Action they worked on together.
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Thanos Kollias Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 5009
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Posted: 12 August 2005 at 1:30am | IP Logged | 12
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What Nelson is doing is just wrong. Whether he does it himself or is being asked by the editor is irrelevent. It is just plain wrong.
The difference, I think is this: If the editor had a problem with the pencils, he should ask John to make the changes he thought necessary. If the inker spots things he feels should change, he again should report to the editor, who in turn would contact John again.
The funny part is though that in the past we would only guess at changes. No pencils gallery and no internet would probably elevate Nelson in a very high rank in the John Byrne Inkers List.
I like Nelson's inks in all the cases he doesn't redraw, btw. His style adds something new to John's art. Texture, shadows, linework are top notch. He is a far better artist than Nekros, I think, but whether he is better suited for Byrne is personal taste (Doug Hazlewood and Terry Austin put them both to shame, I think and their work is much, much more faithful to John's pencils).
As for the redraws, I don't think they really work. Especially the afore-posted images of Superman are wrong. I will give to the person taking the decision that John's pencils were somewhat weaker than usual (imo) and could use some help, but the redrawing was even worse. Soulless and anatomically incorrect.
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