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Topic: Should Action Comics have a new inker? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Poll Question: Should Action Comics have a new inker?
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John Mietus
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 1  



At least he kept the left hand the same.
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 2  

Mark Farmer! Now THAT's a guy I'd like to see ink JB again, and he'd be perfect for Action. True Brit was nice enough, but id prefer to see them work together on a less humor-oriented book.

I've peeked at recent issues of JLA that he's inked and they look fanastic. It's rare to see him ink someone other than Alan Davis.
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Lars Johansson
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | 3  

Ed Love: ...a penciller may decide that a page will have more punch if deviating from the writer's instructions a little bit, that he has a better visual idea. likewise, inkers bring quite a bit to pencils depending on the inker's particular style of laying down line, often bringing a certain kind of texture to the artwork that isn't there in the pencils stage...

*****************************

What you just stated could be true, but I don't believe that anything of it is. The first one, better visual idea might be OK, but I have seen more comic book artists, just my friends who I happen to know, with crossed over items like "not in script" than comments like "better visual idea". The inks shold add texture, that is also a great idea, but not true to me either, since all I have heard is this: The actual printed book will turn into potato print (I hope you know what I mean, a potato dipped in ink) so therefore we have to add inks. Also, the 60's and 70's books were not scanned, the were photographed. That's also why we have inks, to match the bad printing process and photography, sad but true. It has nothing at all to do with adding texture.

When it comes to colors, your US comic books were not colored properly until the nineties. We in Sweden had better paper, that's our main industry or so. You have not been used to real colors for sixty years, so I believe that we have seen some over-used computer effects, but it starts to fade out and they get better and better.

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Jacob P Secrest
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 4  

By "fixing" JB's art, Nelson is not doing his job, I think ACTION definately
needs a new inker.
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Ed Love
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 5  

mr. johansson,
talk to christopher priest and he'll tell you how often he's had to change what he wrote to match what the artist drew instead of the other way around. of course the instances that readily stick in the head are the bad ones. but, i'm not talking about violating the spirit of the script but changing things that might make for a better visual than the strict directions, or even coming up with something based on vague descriptions and running with it, bringing in your own ideas. i've had a few times myself when i was told what i ultimately came up with was better than what was envisioned in the directions or expected. but, if they request a car, i don't give them a giraffe just because i think it would look better.

what you say is true as far as printing is concerned. in fact, part of my reasoning is based on that each step is part of the process towards the end product, and that each step makes judgements based on where they are and where it needs to be to the best of their ability and inking is an integral part of that. but, as far as texture is concerned, the inker does change the texture of the page. just as pencils have their own look which does not reproduce well, the very process of going over those lines with a solid black line changes that. then you factor in each inker has their own style from how they interpret a line, whether to make it thick or fine, keep it sketchy or tighten, their preferred tools and how they visually translate the world to the page, they possess something differently.  so, yes, the reason we have inkers is because pencils don't translate well (even scanned), but when you pick a specific inker for a penciler you start factoring in other things. part of that is speed. but, also, can a certain inker bring out or add something that isn't necessarily there in the pencils, some of which wouldn't be there regardless of the best penciller. a great example is an issue of "power company" where tom grummett had around 4 different inkers. the same guy doing the pencils, but every so many pages, radical change in how they looked. so, when i say texture, i'm talking a bit about the particular style of certain inkers, that the style of some inkers add a certain depth and feel by the way they put the lines on the paper whereas some have very monotonous lines and unvarying lines leading to a very flat feeling texture.

as far as coloring, it's not just the paper, but the presses and the technology and getting books out on time. computers helped a lot in being able do color quickly, accurately (and inaccurately) and incorporating subtle gradiants and color shifts. something hard to do if you're doing it by amberlith. but, i feel that about half of the comics out there tend to be over colored with computerized gradients, fills, and filters; that the colors fight for dominance and try to do the job that the linework is there for. a recent example is the defenders comic. i love maguire's artwork, but too many of the faces are almost completely vacant of detail lines, letting the computerized color make the images seem 3-dimensional. i'm suddenly more drawn to how fake and computerized it all looks than the story it's supposed to be illustrating.

and, i think that the modern coloring tends to exacerbate a visual density that is popular in today's comics, where more lines equate to more detail, and more detail equates to better design. byrne and perez are both excellent at knowing when to do detail and when not to, to let the density of a panel be part of the story's flow, part of the story of each panel instead of having more of everything in every panel with little thought to how it affects the rhythm of the book.

i love looking at hal foster's prince valiants. what he did with ink and color should have been impossible on newsprint at the time and yet, even on 50 year old newsprint, it looks incredible. and all without the benefits of modern tools, effects, and printing capabilities.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 6  

"At least he kept the left hand the same."

Probably only because he can't draw hands.
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Eric Kleefeld
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 7  

I picked up the first two issues of the Simone/Byrne/Nelson run, but I have
not gone beyond that. Why? Because I bought the book to see John Byrne
drawing Superman again, and as it turns out John Byrne isn't drawing the
book.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 8  

That's quite harsh, Eric.  There's a lot of Byrne in ACTION.  As much as there should be?  No.  But to say you can't even tell it's him doing the art is too far a stretch.  
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Vladimir Fiks
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 9  

Does anyone have a scan of the inked version of the final page (splash of
Superman and Lois?) I tried my hand at inking that page and curious to
see the printed version.

Thanks
Vlad
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Andrew Kneath
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 10  

Your not boycotting it too Vladimir?

 

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Vladimir Fiks
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 4:23pm | IP Logged | 11  

Thanks Andrew.

I really don't like to badmouth artists in public forums. Suffice it to say
that I have not been a big fan of Nelson's inks since his stint on Marvel
Knights over Eduardo Barreto. Kind of hoped that his style had changed
in the few years since, but.... :)

Vlad
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Ian Evans
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | 12  

I don't know how harsh it is Matt, but I did the exact same thing as Eric...it isn't Byrne, to me
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | 13  

I see what you guys are saying re: Superman, but I see a lot of JB in the faces of Lois, Jimmy, Perry, many of the villains and just in the way he choses to construct a page.  I'm as upset as anyone that Nelson is redrawing JB for whatever reason, but if John is working on a project, I'm buying it.  The added plus is another Gail Simone comic every month.
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Eric Kleefeld
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | 14  

Andrew Kneath:

Your not boycotting it too Vladimir?

=============

A boycott is when you don't buy something you otherwise would enjoy, with
some ideological message meant to be sent by your abstaining. Not buying
something you don't like is not a boycott; it's not buying something you
don't like.
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Andrew Kneath
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 15  

Fair enough Eric, were you (and Ian for that matter) purely buying the book for the art?

 

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Eric Kleefeld
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | 16  

Gail's writing is good, but now it's too caught up in crossovers and the
redrawing really turns me off. I'd honestly like JB or Nelson separately, but
the two flavors do not go well together, and knowing how much it's been
redrawn is just salt in the wound.
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Ian Evans
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | 17  

To Andrew: Me? Yep.  No interest in Superman as a character and the issues I picked up didn't give me much to go on that way, since I needed to read other comics to know what was going on...which I would have done had the artwork been what I wanted to see...

Hey, it's a sellout so they could care less about my money anyway!

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Eric Kleefeld
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | 18  

Me, I do have an interest in Superman. The Reeve movies were among my
first experiences with the superhero genre, and I've been hooked ever since.
I like different versions of the character from the Weisinger era to Maggin
and Bates to, of course, JB. For example, I love the post-JB, pre-Doomdsay
comics, a very under-rated period that saw great output from Dan Jurgens,
Jerry Ordway and others.

However, I'd say the current version of the character doesn't really speak to
me. The marriage is the obvious part, but there's other stuff that just
doesn't capture my attention, either.
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 19  

Gail's writing is what is keeping me coming back to Action. I thought the writing suffered much during the crossover issue, but that's to be expected (I hope that will be the only time this happens!). If someone else was writing, I'd probably still buy it, but I would be less enthusiastic about it.
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Paul Greer
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | 20  

I have to say that JB brought me to Action comics (I really haven't read much Superman since he left) and while I am still adjusting to the art changes, the stories have been well done. I'm hooked on Gail's take on Superman and the changes on the art have little impact on my enjoyment of these stories. Would I like these drastic changes to stop? Of course. However, if it wasn't for these obvious changes I think Nelson works well over JB.

Edited by Paul Greer on 16 August 2005 at 5:36pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 21  

Paul Greer: However, if it wasn't for these obvious changes I think Nelson works well over JB.

****

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln…"

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Luke Smyth
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 22  

Just out of curiousity, anybody know who actually assigned the current creative team to Action Comics?  Was it the Editor or someone higher up?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 23  

Dan DiDio personally asked me to do the book.
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Luke Smyth
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | 24  

Thanks for the quick reply.  Is that the normal way people are assigned these days at DC?  Also did you mention before that Mr Didio selected Nelson as your inker or am I confusing Nelson with Nekros?

Edited by Luke Smyth on 16 August 2005 at 7:48pm
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Glenn Brown
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Posted: 16 August 2005 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | 25  

OK John, obviously you're viewing this thread but being diplomatic and professional (as you should)...so I'll ask this in as benign a manner as possible.

When you were asked to pencil Action Comics, or at any point after accepting the assignment, were you told upfront that there would be significant alterations made to your artwork in the inking stage?

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