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Eric Kleefeld Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4422
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 1
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There's not much in the way of long works bearing De Vere's name. There
are some early poems attributed to him, interestingly enough in the form we
now call a Shakespearean sonnet.
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Ian Evans Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 September 2004 Posts: 2433
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 2
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But which was before that known as a Petrarchan sonnet since it originated with Petrarch...
As someone who has read a lot of Shakespeare (no, let me finish...) I can compare it a little to having seen a comic artist's work...you know it's him even though you would have a little trouble telling someone else how you know...Shakespeare's works say Shakespeare in the same way that JB's say JB...so the Tempest is Shakespeare to me in the same way that Doom Patrol, say, is JB to you...I had to study (not had to, it was an unmitigated JOY, darling (!)) Elizabethan and Jacobean literature for my degree and it really is not hard to differentiate Shakespeare from Webster or Jonson or Marlowe...someone asks you is that Kirby or a copy and you can tell most (I'd say all) times,
This doesn't answer the question I myself raised, but I think it's interesting.
Your airmiles may differ
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132401
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | 3
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Andrew Bitner: There is considerable historic evidence to suggest that Edward DeVere, if not the sole author of the "Shakespeare" plays, was at least the principal author. Given the era and the low social standing of playwrights, it is entirely logical that DeVere may have wished to use Will Shaksper as a "front." I don't know if the proof will ever be conclusive beyond any doubt, but it is certainly persuasive. **** One of my favorite links of the chain is that De Vere's widow apparently left, in her will, 100 pounds to Will Shaksper of Stratford, "our silent friend".
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132401
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 4
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Eric Kleefeld: Mark Twain pointed out that Shakespeare's will contained no references to books, manuscripts or other writings in the estate. If indeed true then it's a strong argument against the mainstream authorship idea. **** Also, when interviewed some ten years after his death, Shaksper's daughter had no idea her father was supposed to be the greatest playwright in the land. (She wouldn't have been able to read the plays, anyway. Altho he supposedly authored stories featuring some of the strongest female characters in literature, all well eduacted, Shaksper did not allow his own daughters to be schooled, even enough to learn to read and write.)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132401
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | 5
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Ian Evans: As someone who has read a lot of Shakespeare (no, let me finish...) I can compare it a little to having seen a comic artist's work...you know it's him even though you would have a little trouble telling someone else how you know...Shakespeare's works say Shakespeare in the same way that JB's say JB...so the Tempest is Shakespeare to me in the same way that Doom Patrol, say, is JB to you...***** Of course Shakespeare's plays say "Shakespeare". Just like Mark Twain's stories say "Mark Twain". The question is not "Did Shakespeare write the plays?" the question is "Who was Shakespeare?" Not the barely literate glover's son turned wannabe actor from Stratford, surely? The first time the name turns up as an attributation, by the way, it is spelled "Shake-spear". In theatrical "code" of the time, a hyphenated name in which the second part is lower case was an indication of a false or made-up name. Usually, this was for characters, as when Ben Jonson named an incompetent physician "Dr. Fill-grave" in one of his plays. Still, let us never forget the De Vere crest...:
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Andy Hardy Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 441
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 6
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When I was taking various Shakespeare classes and research classes in college (over ten years ago), the professors told us that the De Vere authorship controversy was a joke among the truly educated and to not persue that line of thinking. So, since I wanted to pass more than I wanted to (attempt to) find the truth, I just let it slide.
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John Mietus Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9704
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 7
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Okay, like Ian, I was only peripherally aware of this, but now I've got to look
into it more. Any books on the subject that should be recommended?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132401
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | 8
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Carlton Ogburn's "The Mysterious William
Shakespeare" is highly recommended -- but be
careful not to drop it on your foot!
A slimmer volume is "Shakespeare: Who Was He?"
by Richard F. Whalen.
Also, go here:
http://www.shakespeare-oxford.com/
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Jason Fulton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3938
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | 9
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The real question - is there a Wikipedia page on the subject, so I can get some real facts?
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John Papandrea Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 647
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | 10
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For fans of Shakespeare:
Written work (one hell of a big book!):
Plays on CD
Edited by John Papandrea on 22 September 2005 at 5:16pm
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Eric Kleefeld Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4422
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | 11
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Please delete. Thank you.
Edited by Eric Kleefeld on 22 September 2005 at 5:13pm
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John Mietus Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9704
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | 12
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Thanks, JB -- now I not only have something to add to my reading list, but I
also now know what my mother is getting for Christmas this year.
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