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Doug Hancock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6
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| Posted: 11 November 2005 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 1
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John,
Over on the
MillarWorld Forums and at
Newsarama
there are threads discussing this drawing. I'm tired of the argument
going on and on so I thought that I would just ask you. Do you know who
drew the little cartoonish character in the lower left corner? And can you share that info with us?
Thank You,
Doug Hancock
Edited by Doug Hancock on 11 November 2005 at 8:42pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132234
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 5:51am | IP Logged | 2
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Curious! Some, tho not all, of the lettering in the balloon looks like mine from that vintage, but the style of the cartoon is not mine. Clearly Terry inked it, but it is not his drawing style.In other words, I don't have a clue!
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 3
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Some guys at Millarworld and Newsarama are claiming it as evidence of racism.
Of course, those are probably the same sort to look the other way in the face of REAL racism.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 12 November 2005 at 7:39am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132234
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 4
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Some guys at Millarworld and Newsarama are claiming it as evidence of racism.**** Yes, clearly it is an example of the insidiously brilliant stealth racism I have been practising for decades. You know -- including strong, intelligent, fully integrated Black characters in my work. Casting minorities of all races and genders as authority figures. Suggesting non-specified characters be members of minority groups. Bwah-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!
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John Griggs Jr
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 April 2005
Location: France
Posts: 2026
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 5
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If you add up the issue number 1+1+6=8. Eights are look like snowmen, snowmen are all white, RACISM, I tell ya.
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Norman Hardy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 189
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 6
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Yes, clearly it is an example of the insidiously brilliant stealth racism I have been practising for decades. You know -- including strong, intelligent, fully integrated Black characters in my work. Casting minorities of all races and genders as authority figures. Suggesting non-specified characters be members of minority groups.
Bwah-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!
****
I KNEW IT!! And that's why I've been buying your work for the last 20 plus years. I'm just gathering evidence.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132234
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 7
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This is getting me thinking back to those "simpler times" -- ie. long before the InterNet -- when I was just starting out in comics. Cover boxes and backs of pages used to be fair game for all kinds of cartoon shenanigans, back then, many of which would sear the flesh from the faces of our more PC folk today. Racial and ethnic humor was particularly ripe, and at Marvel the doors of various editors’ offices were festooned with cartoons and double-meaning newspaper headlines that seem hard to believe, in retrospect. (These were also the doors that featured cartoons skewering Jack Kirby's latest efforts. It was here I first saw "Jack the Hack" used in reference to the guy without whom there would likely have been no Marvel Comics, at least as we knew them.)On one of my earliest trips into the “new” Marvel offices, after I started working for them full time (around 1976 or thereabouts) I was amazed to see one office door sporting a perfectly rendered logo for “Captain American and de FowlCoon”. Jokes about Black Goliath being “the Big Nig” were common, and one writer -- whom I shall not name, for sadly obvious reasons -- used to say he wanted to do a Black Goliath story titled “The Jig is Up!” African-Americans were not the only ones being targeted in this ever-escalating “War of Bad Taste”. Dating from the “Iron Man’s nose” period, I remember seeing a cartoon of ol’ Shellhead sporting a grotesquely huge cartoon “Jewish nose” -- and a yamulka! And don’t even get me started on the sexual and scatalogical stuff that abounded! We were a “generation” that was cutting its teeth on the likes of “The National Lampoon”, and spearing society’s most sacred cows was all the rage. (It was this, among other things, that prompted Shooter’s famous “If only this power could be harnessed for good” comment.) Point is, we were all young and “rebellious”, and we raked everyone over the coals with equal vigor. The term “Politically Correct” had barely been invented, and was used almost exclusively as a pejorative, when it was used at all. Stuff like the cartoon that is the subject of this thread is, indeed, cringe-inducing now, but back then such things were seen as precisely what they were meant to be: jokes.
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Brian Talley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5124
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 8
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I would like to say that I was amazed at what I was reading over at the other boards regarding this. But I can't. Posters at Millarworld and Newsarama doing everything but calling JB a Klansman, and this was before he posted his response to the inquiry regarding the art. Now of course these same people will say that John is covering for Terry, or just outright lying about doing it himself. The artwork passed through a lot of hands and the part in question could have been done anywhere along the line. And of course, these people are too gutless to come here and throw their accusations around.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 9
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I'm not "lying" about anything. I may have done this drawing, I may not. As I said, it doesn't really look like my stuff of that vintage, to me (my cartoony work tended to be less angular), but I am most definitely not saying I didn't do it. I'm saying I don't remember -- and, frankly, given time and place, I don't care. I'll stand the entire body of my work against any charges that I am a "racist".As I have noted elsewhere, tho, what we see here is pathetically obvious. The Byrne Bashers have seen their usual litany of spurious complaints -- "no backgrounds", "all the same face", "old stuff was better", etc -- systematically demolished, and are casting about for other, less tangible "charges". None of them have the stones to address racism where it really exists (as I have, many times) so their position is utterly without value, even if there was anything to support it.
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Joe S. Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 605
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 10
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I think the PC gang - especially in comics, for some reason - just love having someone to put on trial.
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Darren Taylor
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5994
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 11
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Love that cover!
Fantastic work.
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Eran Aviani
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2005
Posts: 14
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 9:34am | IP Logged | 12
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I ran into a thread that brought up this cover and was quite a few posts into it before even realizing what everyone was looking at. If you ask me, the whole PC deal has gotten way out of hand long ago.
And I agree, it is a fantastic cover!
Edited by Eran Aviani on 12 November 2005 at 9:35am
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Topic Closed)
