Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 46 Next >>
Topic: Joe Q to end Peter Parker Marriage? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 1  

I don't think MJ's been a supermodel for years.  For the last few years they've been writing her as a struggling stage actress, which at least brings her down to Peter's level (worrying about money, being 1 in a group of thousands, rather than 1 of ten people in the world).  Of course, they screwed that up by moving her and Peter into Avengers Tower.  I think the biggest problem with Spider-Man right now is JMS, but Quesada's the boss, so the buck stops at his desk.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 2  

If by Buck you mean Nacho, yes.

(sorry, couldn't resist)
Back to Top profile | search
 
Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7558
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | 3  

Although I agree with Matt's take that comics featuring "classic" superheroes should be all ages, we could discuss how childhood itself is a very different thing than when we were kids. Are children more "adult" than we used to be? I don't know. I don't think "all ages" entertainment should be dismissed, but I also don't see too many G-rated movies in release any longer; even stuff aimed at kids is PG.

Maybe the terrain of childhood moves on and encourages us to rethink our definitions and paradigms.

That doesn't mean that I want to see Spider-Man dealing with mortgages and spider-offspring and the onset of male pattern baldness by any stretch-- he should've stayed a teenager (just like the X-Men should have) and never grown into his college years or gotten married. But that's my take-- others may (and probably will) feel differently about "their" Spider-Man.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Rey Madrinan
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 865
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 4  

"Ok, let's say you happen to be a liberal that wants more so called minorities"

 I agree that changing characters race or sex is just stupid Mig, but are you saying that there are no such thing as Minorities?
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7985
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 5  

And forget the Marvel Age stuff and Johnny DC.  I started collecting comics when I was 12, and I wanted real comics.  If you publish accessible, classic comics, you do not need to do this, especially DC, with all their titles and lines: Legends of the Dark Knight, JLA & JSA: Classifed, All Star Superman & Batman and Robin.  You could tell all kinds of stories separately from the main titles.  Throw in Vertigo and you could do whatever you want.

Heck, you do not even need continuity.  Batman is Batman, Superman is Superman.  Who cares what happenes in Superman/Batman (World's Finest)?  And Justice League, forget about it!  Does it really matter?  Do you really care?  It's make believe.

If you like Batman, read Batman.  If you like Superman, read Superman.  If you like to see them together, read Superman/Batman.  If you like all the heroes together, read JLA.  Why should DC have to make it all fit together?  Why do readers care?  As long as the characters are true to themselves, why do you have to explain how Batman is in Gotham, Metropolis, and on Mars all at the same time?  You don't!  He is not real!  These are comics.  The only continuity one should worry about is in the very nature of the character and in the titles themselves, as editors and creators should not contradict themselves too much within their work.

This is how it worked in the Silver Age of DC comics, and it worked.  It worked in Man of Steel too, because JB's Superman was still Superman, regardless of his changes.  One could argue he was more Superman than what Superman become.

The real difference between DC and Marvel is that Marvel was created by one writer/editor and 2 artists.  It was very easy to create a whole Marvel Universe, as opposed to the DC Universe, which had always been a mix of different universes created by different writers and artists working in separate titles. 

Julie Scwartz, however, was pulling a Stan Lee during the Silver-Age.  He too created a new universe availible in different titles, but his Superman & Batman were hardly seen in JLA and the big two were mostly out of his hands.  Regardless, his Superman & Batman were still Superman & Batman,  even though they were separate from their counterparts in the main titles.  He proved you could enjoy comics without worrying about continuity.  Who cares what happened in Mort & Bob's titles.  It didn't matter.

This could still work if you let it.  Look at what happened when DC tried to fix it the first time.  They couldn't let go of the past and the first new earth was more confusing with its inconsistencies than the multiverse was.

We didn't need a crisis to go from the Golden-Age Superman to the Silver-Age Superman, and we did not need one to get to Man of Steel either.  You just do it.  Marvel could have done it with Spider-Man: Chapter One.  Update the origin as necessary without changing the nature of the character, then move back into the regular series and tell classic stories.  Spidey no longer had to be married.  You could have done whatever you wanted.  I prefer the idea of a new first issue to help disconnect the title from the previous volume.  Superman #1, Amazing Spider-Man #1, and even Hulk #1 are good ideas.  They indicate a fresh start, not from the character, but from the weight of previous continuity.  I wish more people liked it, but money talks, and the market decides.  But I digress...

 

Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14891
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 6  

Although I agree with Matt's take that comics featuring "classic" superheroes should be all ages, we could discuss how childhood itself is a very different thing than when we were kids. Are children more "adult" than we used to be?

----

At least from what I've observed, no, they aren't. Certainly times have changed and kids are exposed to more things that used to be "taboo". But I don't think kids are any more sophisticated or mature than when I was kid. I think adults tend to forget how sophisticated they were as kids (speaking in relative terms).

 

Back to Top profile | search
 
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2241
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 7  

I agree with Quesada (one of the very few things I do agree with him on) that Spider-Man should not be married. I also like and agree with JB's idea about restating the whole Marvl Universe from a specific point in time.

I have a couple off topic questions for JB and the rest of you guys.

1. Why did DC decide to get Superman married?

2. How do you guys feel about the Superman and Lois marriage? Do you guys think it was a good idea or a bad idea?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7985
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 8  

Remember this.  I want to find a way to give everybody what they want.  If multiple titles sell, how is that bad?  If you do not like them, just buy one.  Better yet, buy the one you like.

Oh, you might not have every issue?  What a shame!

Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | 9  

I think there's a difference between "all-ages" and "aimed at children".  I would argue that Spider-Man's been all-ages (meaning appropriate for anyone who wants to read it) for most of his existence up until Sins Past (though you could make an argument that the Harry/Drug addiction story, Kraven's Last Hunt, and the Death of Jean DeWollf crossed that line as well).  In fact, you could argue that it was Stan who first crossed that line with the non-Code drug issues, or at least set the precedent.  Of course, there's a huge difference between dealing with drug abuse and Gwen Stacy sleeping with Norman Osborn or Spider-Man getting his eye ripped out.

The point being, Spider-Man should be an all-ages book, and that isn't the same as saying it should be aimed at children.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | 10  

The Superman/Lois marriage doesn't bother me quite as much because Superman's always been older than Spider-Man.  If I have a problem with it, it's that we've lost the central suspense of Lois, an intelligent, clever investigative reporter trying her best to find out who Superman is, and Clark having to be even more clever to keep her from figuring it out.  Is the idea that a pair of glasses keeps her from figuring it out?  Of course.  But that was never the only reason she figured it out.  Anytime she came close there'd be a Superman robot or Batman disguised as Clark Kent when Superman's around to keep her from ever figuring it out.  The problem is you need writers clever enough to maintain that element of suspense in a plausible (relatively speaking) way.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14891
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 11  

Remember this.  I want to find a way to give everybody what they want.  If multiple titles sell, how is that bad?  If you do not like them, just buy one.  Better yet, buy the one you like.

Oh, you might not have every issue?  What a shame!

---

And when the readers of the all-ages line grow up and desire a "mature" title?  And they look at the other line and find that continuity has outpaced them? Do you start another line for them as well?

There are ways of addressing themes that appeal to older readers in a superhero universe. I thought Gotham Central was a good example. Didn't have too many readers, which makes me think that the older fanboys are less interested in mature titles and more interested in having characters age along with them, which is why your idea won't work.



Edited by Michael Roberts on 29 April 2006 at 4:00pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Valerie Finnigan
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 March 2006
Posts: 838
Posted: 29 April 2006 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 12  

I am not interested in having characters age with me. But if a character is no longer written as a teenager, and is written now as being in his 20's or 30's, his issues should be those of a 20-30 something, not those of a high school kid.

As for what I said about being 32, that was regarding how I really don't think it's likely I've been reading Spidey for all those 30 years.
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 46 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login