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John Mietus
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | 1  

The point is he should have stayed a teenager and never aged to his 20s and
certainly never to his 30s, because that strays from the root of the concept
of the character.

It's like making a Star Trek show that isn't about a crew of space explorers
on a starship called Enterprise, settiing it instead on, oh, say, a space
station. It might be a decent show, but it ain't Star Trek.
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Matt Linton
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 4:21pm | IP Logged | 2  

John M:

"...but it ain't Star Trek..."

I'll meet you over in the Trek forum if you want to fight about that.  : )
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 3  

In real life there are plenty of adult issues and problems that are mirrored in the lives of teenagers. Stories about teens can be very compelling for us adults. Look at all the adult fans of teen-based shows like Buffy or the OC. 

Edited by Joe Zhang on 29 April 2006 at 4:24pm
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Valerie Finnigan
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 4  

I always thought it was rather shallow to make age a lynchpin in a character's root concept. The root concepts that I've always liked about Peter Parker remained the same, even as he got older. It's all about personality, really!


Edited by Valerie Finnigan on 29 April 2006 at 4:30pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 5  

I always thought it was rather shallow to make age a lynchpin in a character's root concept. The root concepts that I've always liked about Peter Parker remained the same, even as he got older. It's all about personality, really!

---

As has been stated in other threads on this subject matter, one of the key elements to Spider-Man's character is that there is a conflict between his responsibility in fighting crime and his personal life: work, school, relationships. When he is incapable of meeting the demands of his personal life, because of his crime-fighting, it appears that he is being an irresponsible flake. This was depicted in the most recent Spider-Man movie. A high school or college student who acts the way Peter appears to just seems immature. An adult nearing his 30s who acts the way Peter appears to is a loser. Age does matter in this case.

I honestly don't know how Peter has kept his job as a teacher when he calls in late or sick so much.

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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 6  

I always thought it was rather shallow to make age a lynchpin in a character's root concept. The root concepts that I've always liked about Peter Parker remained the same, even as he got older. It's all about personality, really!
*******************************

Do you think Superboy and Superman are different characters and concepts? Do you think Robin and Nightwing are different, as well? A 30-year-old high school teacher who's Spider-Man is different from a 15-year-old high school student who's Spider-Man.

I don't see how you can say that age is not a lynchpin in who Spider-Man originally was. Superman and Batman can be anywhere between 25 and 35 without changing their characters all that much. But you can't do that with Spider-Man.

Age is also what made Spider-Man unique. Even now, there are no teenage heroes with their own titles (Robin excluded). Say what you will about change and growth, but it's definitely wrong when it makes a unique character less so:

Spider-Man when originally created was a teenager who lived with his aunt and who had the typical problems of youth (adults against him or not understanding him, not able to reveal how "cool" he really was to his peers, and so on). Now, he's a married man with a respectable job.

 

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John Byrne
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | 7  

Spider-Man was created to speak directly to his intended audience. He still does. That, in a nutshell, is the problem.
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | 8  

And I hate when people say "just read the old stories". It's selfish in the sense that new readers should be able to encounter stories involving characters who haven't been diluted by years of bad creative decisions. More hypocritical is that most of these fans are around my age and thus grew up on comics that had tossed old, barnacled continuity.

I don't understand how they don't see the selfishness in taking that position.

If ^^***** had the stones they'd say "Screw continuity! As of January 2007, we're hitting 'rewind' and resetting all the books to where they were in 1972 -- just set in modern time."

No "cosmic events", no 100 issue crossovers. Just an editorial fiat, like MAN OF STEEL. Only way to get things done.

I'm with you, but of course Marvel won't do it because It makes too much sense.

...they could have simply created a new black director of SHIELD named Mack Battle, or something...

I've been labeled a "sellout" because I believe that characters of Color deserve there own unique identities.  I still have trouble understanding why someone would want a pre-existing character "recolored" instead.

As has been stated in other threads on this subject matter, one of the key elements to Spider-Man's character is that there is a conflict between his responsibility in fighting crime and his personal life: work, school, relationships. When he is incapable of meeting the demands of his personal life, because of his crime-fighting, it appears that he is being an irresponsible flake. This was depicted in the most recent Spider-Man movie. A high school or college student who acts the way Peter appears to just seems immature. An adult nearing his 30s who acts the way Peter appears to is a loser. Age does matter in this case.

'Nuff said?

[edited to fix the mess that I made]



Edited by Wallace Sellars on 29 April 2006 at 9:12pm
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Matt Linton
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | 9  

Characters of color do deserve their own identities.  But we were talking specifically about the Ultimate line, and the purpose of that line isn't to create new characters, it's to present a modern, continuity-lite version of the Marvel universe.  I think Marvel and DC are both doing a pretty good job right now of introducing more diversity in their books, whether it's Patriot, Sister Grimm, or the new White Tiger in the Marvel books (not to mention bringing Luke Cage back from limbo and putting him in a high profile book) or (though these could be considered re-branding) Blue Beetle, Spectre, Mister Miracle, Manhattan Guardian, or the Atom at DC.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | 10  

If Marvel really wanted to have a black director of SHIELD in the Ultimate Universe they should have used Gabriel Jones. As is often the case with the current editorial regime at Marvel, they say they want more racial diversity in their books, yet they seem to either ignore or to allow the NAME creators to kill off the minority characters they do have.
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Matt Linton
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | 11  

The only minority character I can think of who's died recently (and actually, not yet) is Night Thrasher.  White Tiger was killed (after being brought back from obscurity) and replaced with his niece, who is also a minority.

Am I missing anyone else?

And I think far less minority characters are being ignored now than ten years ago.
You've got Luke Cage, Misty Knight, White Tiger, Arana, Nico/Sister Grimm, Patriot, Black Panther/Storm, Captain Marvel/Photon, Shang-Chi (coming back in the new Heroes for Hire series) all being used pretty prominently right now.


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Lee Gracie
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | 12  

I have never like Quesada as the Editor in Chief of Marvel. And if he goes a head with Peter Marriage to MJ ends. I wil start by cut down a lot of Marvel books that I get. And you know what the funny this is. I use to read a lot of Marvel comic before Quesada became the Editor in Chief. I read a lot more DC books now. And I can tell one thing I do read a lot of titles.

 

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