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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36305
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 1
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Because you've been reading them for 30 years, Valerie. Either you accept the conceit of mainstream superheroes, or you move on. Simple as that.
And an "everyman" is just that; Every. Man. There's not an "everyman" for kids and an "everyman" for adults. For decades, Peter Parker worked spectacularly well for both. You know, he was an all-ages character, a true everyman.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 12:58pm | IP Logged | 2
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"Peter at 40 probably should be happily married with a kid, with a college degree, working on important scentific matters. "
We all knew that would be how his story would "end". But it seems like
the majority of fandom want nothing but to write their own ending. JMS
has done much to go in that direction, suggesting that Peter's end
would be a violent one.
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Valerie Finnigan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 March 2006
Posts: 838
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 12:58pm | IP Logged | 3
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Matt, you're the one who brought up the idea that there could be an everyman for young people.
And actually, while I don't recall a time when I didn't know how to
read, I'm sure I haven't been reading Spiderman for 30 years. After
all, I'm only 32.
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David Blot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 858
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | 4
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1 - I love it when people speak in the name of Stan Lee so highly, and just
not remember that the guy is still alive and, and as far as I know, doesnt
complain at all about Quesada. (Well he better not be, he never compains
once during the X-Force years so...)
Heck, Lee even wrote the intro of the Millar Spider-Man HC.
So please say : "this is not the way I read Stan stories", not "this is not the
way Stan did it (or would have done it)". Quite different indeed.
2 - The wedding was a mistake. Ok. (Well - not according to Stan, that
said, but then again, who's is this guy - probably some english morron
who curse every two panels because his life is so pathetic).Now,
everybody (or so) here agree (JB the first) that this wedding is a bad thing
for the character. JQ agrees also. He says so. How can anyone can still
complain about something they asked for is beyond me.
Like some author once said to me : 'too busy playing the martyr', I guess.
3 - Putting everything back like in the 70's ? Oh yes - like if it would be a
neat move to attract new readers ! "Yes, kid, Marvel are putting back the
books at the time your father was 14 and stopped reading it 'cos he
preffered girls". Brilliant. Not mentioning that every writer will just remade
some of the 'cancelled stories', like DD's Miller of FF's Byrne - because,
yes, some good things happened in the least 30 years, and who can
imagine DD without Elektra backstory now ?
Let's a bit more pragmatic here : you don't have to Bobbie Ewing
everything. This is comic book, you find other means to put everything
right back on spot. Besides, the Clone saga already tried this, and we
know what brillant results it had (everybody complained about Peter's
'cancelled stories', and then - re intro May and Norman but keep the
wedding) - gee. So ok, I'd love to say that for 'Sins Past' never happened
for example, but do I need a 30 years reboot to say so ?
4 - At the end of the day everybody will be happy with a Peter bachelor
so, like we say in France, stop 'hidding your joy' !
Oh damn, nearly 'everybody', I forgot about Stan....
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Michael Arndt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 April 2004
Posts: 8572
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 5
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If you have good writers Spider-Man never gets boring.
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Ian Evans
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 September 2004
Posts: 2433
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | 6
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That a comics fan can type 'only 32' without any hint of irony tells us a lot about the reasons for much of the 'heroes must age' nonsense that infects current comics thinking...
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Taavi Suhonen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 1544
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
| Matt, you're the one who brought up the idea that there could be an everyman for young people. |
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That was Jim Bracjey, not Matt.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36305
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 8
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Valerie Finnigan wrote:
| Matt, you're the one who brought up the idea that there could be an everyman for young people. |
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Not in the least. He's an everyman for all-ages. Never said nor implied that he's one for the young. Anything to the contrary you read into my post.
The conceit of mainstream superheroes has always been that they don't age, they don't mature, they don't actually grow in anyway approximating the real world. Sure, like JB said, Lee grew the characters at early Marvel...until he realized they'd be around for a lot longer than a couple of years. Then he stopped that altogether. Given that conceit, you either accept it without complaining that Peter still gripes about money, girls, and is fighting the Green Goblin for the 1,000th time, or you don't. If it's the latter, move on. The conceit shouldn't change because you're getting bored.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14881
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 9
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Matt, you're the one who brought up the idea that there could be an everyman for young people.
And actually, while I don't recall a time when I didn't know how to
read, I'm sure I haven't been reading Spiderman for 30 years. After
all, I'm only 32.
---
That was Jim who brought up the everyman for young people.
I find that Spider-Man doesn't get boring until the 26th year of reading him, so you might have crossed the line already.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 10
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C'mon, 32 is still young.
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John Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1070
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 11
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The only Marvel character that I can think of having a reboot is Iron Man, after Heroes Reborn, when it was decided to ignore all the "teen Tony" stuff. It may, or may not be happening to Thor. (The "Ragnarok" could be a reboot or Thor could just as easily show up with a "it just happens ever so" often explaination and things go on with the "classic" characterization of Thor and the Asguard Gods).
Right now it's one of the defining differences between the two companies. DC seems to be constantly reboot their line and they have tremendous difficulty with characters aging up. Marvel hasn't really rebooted. Even the obvious canidates, Heroes Reborn, Avengers Dissassembled and House of M, didn't really reboot the main lines. After Heroes Reborn the "main" marvel line returned and except for Iron Man, they were exactly as they were before they left. House of M just cut out the "1/5 of humanity is a mutant" nonsense.
Marvel has shown a little bit more disipline in not aging up characters. Franklin Richards is six years old, correct? He was 41//2 or so when JB left the series, so it's close to the same range and he comes off with the perspective of a little kid. If he was in the DC universe he would be in his late teens (or older).
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14881
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 12
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Marvel has shown a little bit more disipline in not aging up
characters. Franklin Richards is six years old, correct? He was 41//2
or so when JB left the series, so it's close to the same range and he
comes off with the perspective of a little kid. If he was in the DC
universe he would be in his late teens (or older).
---
Franklin remains in the 6-8 range, while Julie Power from Power Pack went from 10 to 16. Kitty Pryde went from 13 to 16 to 18 to 16 to 18, while the New Mutants were seemingly portrayed in their early 20s. Jubilee from the X-Men went from 15 to 13 to it looks like 18. Marvel isn't really better about aging the characters than DC.
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