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Brian Peck Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1667
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
JB wrote:
If ^^***** had the stones they'd say "Screw continuity! As of January
2007, we're hitting 'rewind' and resetting all the books to where they
were in
1972 -- just set in modern time."
No "cosmic events", no 100 issue crossovers. Just an editorial fiat, like
MAN
OF STEEL. Only way to get things done. |
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JB,
That is a great idea! No Wolverine (heis so overused), no Phoenix (sorry JB
but Phoenix was the worst thing to happen to Jean), no more of the dark
ultra-violent heroes. Back to the Jean & Scott soap-opera.
Edited by Brian Peck on 29 April 2006 at 1:33pm
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Mig Da Silva Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 900
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 2
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Marvel never had to reboot the universe, because, to be fully honest, they were a lot better at it.
But the last years have been a complete disaster, from plain inane ploters, to turning villains into women for no reason other then political agenda ou demographic eye winks, stupid knock-offs like only DC would do such as Young Avengers (no, i don't care how supposedly well written it might've been), Spider-Girl, Latina Spider-Girl, et al; the reality is, what once was the more restrained, lucid, policy of Marvel (which would really only go boinkers $$ grab with the X-Universe) totally went of the window in the last years.
These days everytime i seem to check the news on M****** it seems as though a another character totally destroyed, changed irrevocably, cancelled, rebooted, aged, de-aged, sex-changed, kid-ified.
It makes the universe almost unbearable.
It's not even a universe anymore.
And once, that was a problem only DC had.
I believe these guys seriously did some damage to Marvel's intelectual property. Much of which i wonder if it's still revocable.
You know, you don't just wake up someday and make Nick Fury a black guy. Ok, let's say you happen to be a liberal that wants more so called minorities in your books. You know what, create fresh characters, but don't go out and rape existing Intelectual Property that took half a century to create. It offends readers, it offends the creators, it may very well offend anyone with half a brain.
Sometimes i just don't know what wrong with people that they act so irresponsably towards what arguably is extremely valuable Intelectual Property. For what? A couple of liberal points? A couple more minority readers? Just so don't have to actually create new and original characters instead? Just because you're so lame you can't do anything but ride on other people's creativity?
It's sad.
It really is.
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David Blot Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 August 2005 Location: France Posts: 858
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 3
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Mig wrote : it offends the creators
---
Stan Lee offended by what Marvel Quesada does ? When ?
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5833
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 4
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I think the notion of Peter Parker as an "everyman" for kids makes sense. I think that adults can relate to that, in the sense that they were teenagers, as well. Spider-Man works as an allegory for adolesence (much as BUFFY did). Most adults are out to get him (his villains, Jameson) or don't understand the real him (Aunt May). When you change that, when you make him a high school teacher for pity sakes, he's a different character with similar powers to the one in AF #1 (and now, thanks to the current comics, his powers aren't even all that similar -- you might as well call him Bug Man)
In other words, Peter is the everyman for adults who remember what it was like to be a teenager. Yes, most adults are married and have normal jobs, but giving Peter that background is a mistake.
And if you're tired of reading 30 years worth of stories about Peter being afraid that Aunt May is going to have a heart attack if she learns the truth about him, then you should move on to other things.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36306
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 5
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David Blot wrote:
Stan Lee offended by what Marvel Quesada does ? When ? |
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What does it matter if he is or isn't, David? Lee, as wonderful a man as he is, is a paid mouthpiece for Marvel. He's got a $1 mil-a-year contract to promote, at a moments notice, anything that Marvel does. Recently, it's leaned more toward the film end of the characters, but he's also commented on any of a number of changes in the comics with his trademark aplomb. That you don't hear him slamming Joey da Q holds no weight with me.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36306
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 6
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Stephen, I agree with 99.9% of what you wrote, with the caveat that I don't think it's necessary to compartmentalize an "everyman" for kids and an "everyman" for adults. Peter Parker is, at his core, the perfect all-ages character, appealing to young and old alike. If you're a kid, you're probably going through much of what he's going through (in his prime and when written in character) and if you're an adult, you can associate with those feelings while still working through your own version of money, family, and relationship issues. To me, that's the very definition of "everyman", no need to quantify or compartmentalize.
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Jason Fulton Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3938
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 7
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Jeff Fettes should develop some sort of messageboard widget that scans every post. If the post says 'But Stan/Jack/Steve aged the characters!', then JB's response could pop up. If the post says 'But Stan isn't bothered by current marvel!", Matt's response could pop up.
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Dave Phelps Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4188
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 8
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QUOTE:
The conceit of mainstream superheroes has always been that they don't age, they don't mature, they don't actually grow in anyway approximating the real world. Sure, like JB said, Lee grew the characters at early Marvel...until he realized they'd be around for a lot longer than a couple of years. |
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Yeah, but in many ways by then the "damage" was done. Yeah, we can make comparisons to Simpsons, Winnie the Pooh, Archie or whatever, but the "rules" for those series are different than the ones set up for Spider-Man when it started. By getting rid of the glasses early on, having him graduate from high school, move out of Aunt May's place, etc. Stan set a precedent that later creative types have chosen to follow. (The marriage is a weird case since it appears that Stan was the one pushing for it in the first place.)
All that aside, it's one thing to argue that the marriage shouldn't have happened. There's been some good arguments made. Thing is, how to get rid of it without making things worse? Ignoring a scene from a story that came out 20 years ago and no one even remembers (and those that do didn't even like) is one thing. Ignoring the status quo of the last 20 years is something else.
If the Clone Saga taught us anything, it's that fans don't like it when you toss whole sections of stories they grew up reading. So the only way to do it is the hard way. And if they don't want to do that...
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Jason Fulton Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3938
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 9
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They stopped aging the characters within the first four years of the 'beginnning'. And then they didn't age them again for twenty some years.
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Dave Phelps Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4188
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
If you're a kid, you're probably going through much of what he's going through (in his prime and when written in character) and if you're an adult, you can associate with those feelings while still working through your own version of money, family, and relationship issues. |
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Which part was his "prime?" I started during the Stern run, and I gotta tell you - when I was 8, I wasn't that concerned about paying the rent and worrying about a work rival's girlfriend putting the moves on me while my jewel thief girlfriend was recovering in the hospital. Didn't matter though - I came for the guy in the neato outfit fighting the old guy with the wings.
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Zaki Hasan Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8101
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 11
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the reality is, what once was the more restrained, lucid, policy of
Marvel (which would really only go boinkers $$ grab with the
X-Universe) totally went of the window in the last years.
****
Right. The same restrained policy that gave us Force Works, Fantastic Force, Thunderstrike, War Machine, Spirts of Vengeance, the Scarlet Spider, USAgent. I'm sure there are more that I'm just forgetting. And let's not forget an entire line of "Unlimited" books that came and went (Fantastic Four, Midnight Sons, Cosmic Powers, etc.).
As opposed to today where we have Young Avengers and...umm...yeah, Young Avengers.
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Robert White Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4560
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 12
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It's very possible to reboot all the Marvel titles from the beginning, yet still keep all of the good things that developed over the years.
If someone were to reboot FF, for instance, I'm sure most of the progression (most specifically regarding Sue, Doom, and Galactus) that JB introduced would be included in the new title.
I would prefer a flashback first issue with the understanding that the characters have at least been in operation for a year or so. This would allow the creators to at least attempt something new, without having to, once again, go over Stan Lee and Jack Kirby origin issues that are common knowledge to many in the mainstream anyway. I've noticed that most of the super hero cartoons have taken this approach over the years--specifically high quality stuff like Batman:TAS and Superman:TAS.
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