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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36313
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 1
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Dave Phelps wrote:
| Which part was his "prime?" I started during the Stern run, and I gotta tell you - when I was 8, I wasn't that concerned about paying the rent and worrying about a work rival's girlfriend putting the moves on me while my jewel thief girlfriend was recovering in the hospital. Didn't matter though - I came for the guy in the neato outfit fighting the old guy with the wings. |
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Dave, c'mon. You're being waaaaaay too literal, picking and choosing to what you want to defend your position. During the Stern run, Peter had problems with friends, struggles with his Aunt May and punishing authority figures in JJJ. When I started reading him near the age you did, albeit years earlier, I could associate with that as well as get into the superhero action. I'm pretty sure you knew that was part and parcel of what I was talking about, having been around these boards for a while.
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David Blot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 858
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 2
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Zaki wrote : Right. The same restrained policy that gave us Force Works,
Fantastic Force, Thunderstrike, War Machine, Spirts of Vengeance, the
Scarlet Spider, USAgent. I'm sure there are more that I'm just forgetting.
And let's not forget an entire line of "Unlimited" books that came and
went (Fantastic Four, Midnight Sons, Cosmic Powers, etc.).
As opposed to today where we have Young Avengers and...umm...yeah,
Young Avengers.
---
And we also have Runaway, the best teenage Marvel super hero book
since (and new characters by the way)... hum, oh well, who bothers
anyway, JQ is evil...
I'm with you here Zaki.
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | 3
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Best teen hero book since New Warriors, perhaps? Never read Runaways and very little New Warriors...
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David Blot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 858
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | 4
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Matt : What does it matter if he is or isn't, David? Lee, as wonderful a
man as he is, is a paid mouthpiece for Marvel. He's got a $1 mil-a-year
contract to promote, at a moments notice, anything that Marvel does.
Recently, it's leaned more toward the film end of the characters, but he's
also commented on any of a number of changes in the comics with his
trademark aplomb. That you don't hear him slamming Joey da Q holds no
weight with me.
----
That doesnt give the right to anybody to say that Stan is offended by what
Marvel does nowadays. It's just mindreading.
And since everybody is reading into the 'creators' mind, I personnaly read
that Stan, Jack & co are certainly more happy with Quesada than Bob
Harras for example.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134288
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 5
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Not only is every issue the first issue for somebody, but that "first" issue is, many times, the best issue. For me, as many of you know, FF 5 will always be my favorite. It was the first one I bought.So, for many who came in late to the Spider-Man mythos, there's nothing inherently wrong with Peter Parker the successful photojournalist married to a supermodel. That's who Spider-Man is ---- to them. But that's a long way from the character created by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. A long way from the core elements that made the characters so astonishingly successful. So, when we weigh the shape of the book(s) today, versus the shape they were in 30 years ago (taking the changed marketplace into account) which is truly "wrong"?
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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 6
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Mig said:
"You know, you don't just wake up someday and make Nick Fury a black guy..."
They didn't. They started a new, seperate continuity in which that version of Nick Fury is black. And Spider-Man is a teenager in high school. And the X-Men are teenagers. In other words, they changed some things to a more traditional version of the characters, and they updated other things. And the regular Nick Fury is still in the regular Marvel universe, so I'm not sure what the problem is.
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Lance Hill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2005
Posts: 991
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think some editors and writers (and indeed, "fans") have taken the Peter Parker as an everyman concept too far and too literally. The character was certainly relatable to its target readership, but still had a well defined personality, something which I feel has been lost over the years ("He's an everyman, I'm a man, so I'll write him like myself with super powers").
Peter Parker's personal life during Steve Ditko's issues certainly didn't come off as too everymanish either. He was a major science wizz who could cook up webshooters, spider tracers, anti-magnetic doohickeys to fight the Vulture and all kinds of gadgets. His elderly aunt was his only family. He earned money to pay the bills by selling the most amazing action photos to one of the city's top newspapers. He wasn't shown to have any friends at all in school. He was dating an older woman.
Sounds like quite a quirky kid to me!
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14888
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | 8
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Right. The same restrained policy that gave us Force Works, Fantastic Force, Thunderstrike, War Machine, Spirts of Vengeance, the Scarlet Spider, USAgent. I'm sure there are more that I'm just forgetting. And let's not forget an entire line of "Unlimited" books that came and went (Fantastic Four, Midnight Sons, Cosmic Powers, etc.).
----
I liked the Scarlet Spider and the Midnight Sons. :( And I thought Thunderstrike was neat because it was closer to the original Donald Blake/Thor idea.
(I do understand the point of your post. It's just that the Ben Reilly fans have to speak out! And I've said this before, but I liked the Dan Jurgens Ben Reilly Spider-Man run, because he was closer to the core of the character than what had been going on with Spider-Man for a long time.)
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David Blot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 858
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | 9
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Robert write : Best teen hero book since New Warriors, perhaps? Never read
Runaways and very little New Warriors...
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Honestly it's much better than New Warriors. For a start, they are brand new
characters and that makes all the difference for me.
That said - New Warriors was inked by Al Williamson for a time right ? Ok...
Runaways is not, I know.
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| They didn't. They started a new, seperate continuity in which that version of Nick Fury is black. And Spider-Man is a teenager in high school. And the X-Men are teenagers. In other words, they changed some things to a more traditional version of the characters, and they updated other things. And the regular Nick Fury is still in the regular Marvel universe, so I'm not sure what the problem is. |
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The problem is that they could have simply created a new black director of SHIELD named Mack Battle, or something, and not tacked on the name, and I assume, persona, of a white character. If the point for something like this is to appeal to a new audience, then said new audience wouldn't care about a new name and character, right? It certainly couldn't have been something amied to please the traditional Nick Fury fans.
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David Blot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 858
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 11
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JB wrote : So, for many who came in late to the Spider-Man mythos,
there's nothing inherently wrong with Peter Parker the successful
photojournalist married to a supermodel. That's who Spider-Man is ----
to them.
But that's a long way from the character created by Stan Lee and Steve
Ditko. A long way from the core elements that made the characters so
astonishingly successful. So, when we weigh the shape of the book(s)
today, versus the shape they were in 30 years ago (taking the changed
marketplace into account) which is truly "wrong"?
----
Well I think JQ agrees with you, that's the all point of the interview he
done both at Wizard and Newsarama no ?
True, I reckon that recently MArvel, and especially on Spider-Man, went
really the other way (Sins Past, new powers, Avengers tower, ect...), but if
they do the total opposite thing now, that can be be for the best no ?
The strangest thing is that the guy who put the most shits in Spider-Man
recently (JMS) is the same one who's supposedly making the new changes
again ! Gee, so many new writers, Vaughan, Slott, Kirkman could do really
good job on Spider-Man, why stick with JMS ???
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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 29 April 2006 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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Responding to Robert:
Because the point of the Ultimate line was updated versions of Marvel characters in contemporary times. That's why there've been so few new characters (heroes and villians) created in the Ultimate books. In the regular books the director of SHIELD is Nick Fury, so in the Ultimate books the director of SHIELD is Nick Fury. And if you're making things more contemporary there need to be more minority characters. The original plan was to make Captain America a black Gulf War vet, but that was nixed, so Nick Fury was a less contraversial choice. Just think of it as Earth-1 and Earth-2 if that helps. : )
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Topic Closed)
