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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135699
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 1
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Ever and always I go back to the Richard Donner SUPERMAN. Each time I saw it in the theater, the audience sat thru the pushing over of mountains and lifting of Southern California with nary a blink. But when he tore off the car door to get to Lois, they cheered. Every one of 'em. Every time.Because that's comrehensible. We have all, at one time or another, experienced something like that, where we wished we could rip a door off its hinges, or some other such demonstration of strenght to deal with life's little frustrations. "Unlimited strength" is meaningless. No one can comprehend what it means, no one can measure it. It's like the height of up, or traveling slower than dark.
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 2
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I think you kind of ignored my point. Every time DC and Marvel have had their characters meet, to my knowledge, the respective characters have demonstrated relatively equal power levels.
Perhaps if the Hulk came over to the DC universe, simply going by that company's style, you would see him performing great feats of strength with more regularity. He wouldn't be any stronger; he'd just be handled differently. That's all I'm saying.
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Brett Payne
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 October 2005
Posts: 782
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 3
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Thanks for the answer JB! I also agree that is lazy writing as well as plain stupid. Now as for the Hulk's strength I do want him to have an unlimited supply when sufficently provoked. That's his only power, and there should not be a limit on it. Many times over the Hulk's 40 year history he has shown to be able to lift over 100 tons and his actual level is incalculable. Superman has not only strength, but supersonic speed, flight, heat vison, freeze breath, invulnerability etc etc etc... Hulk has his strength and invulnerability only. Here are some examples of the Hulk in action:
Here he is smashing an Asteroid twice the size of Earth as the weaker Grey Hulk:
Again none of this compares to Superman or most of the DC heavyweights in terms of strength. But in the Marvel Universe I would rate the Hulk as one of the strongest characters below the cosmic "gods" like Galactus and the Celestiels.
Edited by Brett Payne on 24 September 2006 at 3:01pm
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 4
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Plus, as JB has showed us, there is a limit to what you can do given mass and gravity. That being said, I always wondered if Gladiator was just boasting when he said he could move worlds. Surly Shi'ar technology would have been involved if true.
The funny thing is that I've never seen Superman move a planet, but have mocked the very idea for years. How does one move a planet? Even with great powers? Do you simply do a handstand on the ground and start flying?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135699
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 5
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Incidentally -- that image of the Hulk ripping Wolverine in half? Couldn't happen. Wolverine's skeleton is made of, or "laced with" Adamantium, depending on who you talk to. (If you are in the "laced with" camp, btw, you are buying into a Shooter-enforced retcon.) Either way, there must be more to it than simply having really tough bones. The connective tissue must be equally tough, or Wolvering is not going to be able to slice thru much beyond a loaf of pumpernickel without breaking his arm. The support structure of his skeleton must be as strong as the skeleton itself. Which means that in order to rip him in half, the Hulk would have to break whatever holds Wolverine's spine together (probably a weave of cables), which would have to be as stong as adamantium. And the Hulk can't do that.
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
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Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 6
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Would and asteroid twice the size of the earth be considered an asteroid? Hmmm.
I think that Leader/Hulk panel may have solved the mystery of the "can't quantify such and such" (Class 100) as far as heavy hitters go.
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Frank Robert
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 624
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 7
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> How does one move a planet? Even with great powers? Do you simply do a handstand on the ground and start flying?
Characters who fly could simply do so while standing up -- use their legs instead of their arms and push/fly downward, I imagine. No need for a handstand.
_FR
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 8
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"The madder he gets, the stronger he gets" began as a neat way of avoiding quantifying the Hulk. We have no real way of knowing where he "starts", strength-wise, so having him get stronger and stronger with the increasing level of his anger is a fairly tidy way of keeping the readers guessing. It the latest menace going to be enough to beat the Hulk? Or will the Hulk keep getting stronger and stronger each time he is knocked down? (This also means the writers have to be clever, as they have to come up with ways for the villains to stop or contain the Hulk other than just hitting him. That only makes him mad.)Alas, asking some writers to be clever is like asking pigs to fly -- it's far easier to have the Hulk be infinitely powerful. (Powerful enough to smash Earth sized "asteroids", for instance. Gimme a break!) Then the writer can just start with it "turned all the way to 11" and the hard part is done.
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Christopher Arndt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 278
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 9
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1) I buy into with "laced with" retcon.
2) It's not adamantium, that's not Wolverine, and Hulk certainly is not ripping Wolveirne in half.
It's Ultimate Hulk ripping Ultimated Wolverine in half and apparently Ultimate Adamantium isn't that tough,
CJA
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Frank Robert
Byrne Robotics Member
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Posts: 624
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 10
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> It's Ultimate Hulk ripping Ultimated Wolverine in half and apparently Ultimate Adamantium isn't that tough,
Christopher, don't quote me, but I think there was discussion about Wolverine's ligaments and tendons being very much breakable, as that are not covered by adamantium, early in that issue or series. Could be that's to blame. Or maybe Hulk really is just that strong ... and adamantium literally ain't "unbreakable."
_FR
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | 11
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I have no idea what's happened to adamantium. At first, to my knowledge, it couldn't be affected by anything save maybe magic. Then Magneto could pull it out of Wolverine's body. (One of my least favorite ideas..ever.) Now it's basically a fancy named tin-foil. Have some love for a fantasy alloy! Jeez.
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Brett Payne
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 October 2005
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| Posted: 24 September 2006 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 12
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Actually the Hulk has dented Adamantium before, on several occasions. Including a nice punch to Ultron. I don't have as much a problem with Wolverine being ripped in half as that is Ultimate Hulk and Ultimate Wolverine who bear little resemblance to the Hulk and Wolverine I know. This Ultimate Hulk eats people for crying out loud......and then Wolverine tracks him by taking a sample of the Hulks shit which contains a finger...ugh...
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