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Jonathon Thezler
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Joined: 22 September 2006
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:14am | IP Logged | 1  

I was merely correcting you on your notion regarding Nightcrawler's ability. No other point. :)

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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 2  

Correcting? The power appeared without any
previous hint, and if he's "invisible in shadow" he
should be invisible at night. What's to correct?
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Jonathon Thezler
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 3  

You stated that Nightcrawler had not shown this ability before. I corrected you stating that he had in fact shown that ability, and very early on in his history, in an issue pencilled by his co-creator.

As to how it works, I agree, but I didn't get into that. I was merely correcting one part of your statement.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 4  

You stated that Nightcrawler had not shown this
ability before. I corrected you stating that he had in
fact shown that ability, and very early on in his history,
in an issue pencilled by his co-creator.


****

Nightcrawler first appeared in GIANT-SIZED X-MEN
1, published a year before X-MEN 102. Not once in
that year did he show this talent for turning invisible.

It's a fun power, but it turned up without precedent.
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Jonathon Thezler
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:29am | IP Logged | 5  

Hmmmm, that's debatable though.

Please hear me out.

Before the castle 'shadowing' we hadn't actually seen Nightcrawler in any dark lit scenes before, so it doesn't technically break continuity. (Of course, simpler colouring had to come into play in regards to heavy shadows, but still...)

From the point of view of known powers before then, absolutely right.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 6  

Jason, you're forgetting Kurt's very first appearance, being chased by torch-weidling villages, at night. No shadows? Really?

Like I said -- fun power, and I used it to good advantage during my own time on UNCANNY -- but there's no way 'round the fact that it appeared without warning, without so much as a hint.

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Jonathon Thezler
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 7  

Again, I respectfully disagree. You've got a whole village full of people, all shown with large torches, pointing at him. That place was lit up like a Christmas Tree.

Also, thanks to the X-Men Omnibus, Mr Cockrum's notes on Nightcrawler show notes along the lines of 'his face is always in shadow' so obviously, something along this vein was in Cockrum's mind. I'd give it a fair possibility to being Mr Cockrum's idea, based on his original sketches.

PS my name is Jonathon. :)

 

EDIT: edited to add a 'Mr' before my first mention of David Cockrum.



Edited by Jonathon Thezler on 26 September 2006 at 9:43am
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 8  

Also, if you go back and read #103 then you'll find Nightcrawler himself remarking that this is a power he'd never knew he'd had before.
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Matt Timson
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 9  

Fair's fair, Jonathon- I think he's got you there!

He's still wrong about Kitty's powers though- unless I'm missing something,
of course...
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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 10  

Mr Cockrum's notes on Nightcrawler show notes
along the lines of 'his face is always in shadow' so
obviously, something along this vein was in
Cockrum's mind.

****

So..... Why isn't Kurt's face invisible?

A couple of things got added to Kurt's bag of tricks
after the publication of GSXM 1. One was that
he was "furry", the other was the invisibility.
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Frank Robert
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 11  

> It's a fun power, but it turned up without precedent.

Heh.  Since the late 1990s, Superman has debuted a few powers that some fans think are unprecedented, too, while other say they're natural outgrowths of his traditional post-Crisis powers -- I'd love to get your thoughts on these, John:

  • Ice breath: He could blow hard, but not blow ice post-Crisis until the Loeb era.
  • Photon torpedos: Mix of X-ray and heat visions to generate a concussive effect (although, to be fair, other artists have portrayed Superman's HV as carrying a material impact -- this tweak just codified it).
  • Torquasm-vo and torquasm-rao: Bizarre mental powers -- like creating armor out of psychic energy and plugging into the "energy of the universe" to do all sorts of vaguely defined stuff.  Haven't seen this stuff used in years.
  • Stress-based dynamic strength: The more stressed he gets, the more energy he, literally, pulls out of the Sun.  Rucka came up with this idea about 2 years ago ... hasn't been heard of since.
  • Invisibility/phasing: Vibrating so fast so as to render himself invisible/intangible.  Also able to commandeer large object's vibratory rate--e.g., matching and then reversing an entire planet's vibratory rate to make is fade from our plane of existence.
  • Faster-than-light flight: Began under the late Jurgens' era; used frequently by the Loeb crew.  Most recently seen in Infinite Crisis ... when the two Superman pushed Superboy Prime from Earth to Krypton in the span of a few panels (maybe a page or so).
  • Non-solar energy absorption: Anti-sunlight, magnetic force, chronal energy, etc., etc.  Some have argued that Superman's ability to absorb Rampage's "solar and cosmic energies" (not verbatim) -- later simply called "super energy" -- laid the groundwork for this, but that might be stretching it.
  • "Soul vision": Fans are split on this.  What Superman sees, he has described as simply a person's EM or bio-chemical aura -- and I believe he had been doing that long before Birthright, which specifically called an aura a "soul" -- others say it's too mystic to be an extension of his "aura vision."  Seen once in Birthright, and then in Verheiden's run on the Superman books; never since.
  • Heat vision "tractor beams": Using heat vision, Superman can rip electrons from matter, "tractor" them elsewhere and then graft them to other materials -- even inert materials.  He and Krypto mixed their heat visions to get the Eradicator hot enough to shave off some of his electrons, tractor them to a piece of inert metal and then bond them to the metal.  This caused Eradicator to go flying into the metal; bond with it, too, as the attraction between the electrons and their original host (E) was still operational.  Never seen since.
  • Hearing/speaking in space: Started seeing this in the Jurgens era.  Pretty common nowadays.
  • No breathing in space: Writers went on and off with this after JB left the book.  Loeb made it one of his conditions for working on Superman -- he hated the idea of Superman having to breath in space, so he nixed it.

Thoughts, JB?

Thanks.

_FR



Edited by Frank Robert on 26 September 2006 at 9:54am
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Bodhi Radl
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Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 12  

Thats funny, I always thought that Nightcrawlers "invisibility" in shadows was not a power at all, just simply the fact that his skin was so dark that it just seemed that he was invisible. Guess I'll have to either read a little closer, or keep up my own allusions.

Edited by Bodhi Radl on 26 September 2006 at 9:50am
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