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Topic: Question for JB: The Doc Samson Sucker Punch (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Brett Rankin
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Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | 1  

I've always wondered where that came from actually, because i swear I've seen it before on like youtube or something. Try tracking anything down in that place though!
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Roger Jackson
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Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:47pm | IP Logged | 2  

I don't look at You Tube all that much, but while looking at some Enhanced Star Trek footage, I found links to some fan made ST (New Voyages) that I'd never seen. Not great, but cool sets!
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Brett Rankin
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Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 3  

Um, okay.
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 22 September 2006 at 10:10pm | IP Logged | 4  

In other words, Roger, your avatar sucks. 0-:-)
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Roger Jackson
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Posted: 22 September 2006 at 11:23pm | IP Logged | 5  

(GULP) Time for a change?
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Frank Robert
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Posted: 23 September 2006 at 3:18am | IP Logged | 6  

Question: 2. Could Doc have KOed your Superman in the same manner if given the opportunity?

Answer: 2. No

* * * * *

Apologies ... it's 5 AM here in DC, so I'm probably not writing very clearly at the moment.

Unless the "no" pertains to Superman's supersenses or speed, rather than invulnerability, it raises the question, John, of how you see your 1980s version of Superman's powers stack up against Hulk's powers -- and not just invulnerability, but strength, too.  A character with your Superman's power level, I'm guessing, could knock Superman out ... if Samson couldn't, but could KO Hulk ... wouldn't that mean that your Superman would score a very facile one-shot KO over Hulk?

Similarly, if, say, Hulk couldn't have survived that 40 megaton nuke to the face that Superman did, wouldn't that mean that Hulk's peers/villains-in-strength, who don't threaten Hulk's life in a fell swoop, simply don't pack the power of a nuke in their fists; neither does the Hulk?  But that Supernan, assuming he could KO himself as that 40 megatonner did, however, is on a level of power that is considerably greater than Hulk and Co. (Gladiator, Thor, Thanos, Surfer, etc.)?

Heck, if that's the case, what does it say about the power levels of Marvel's top shelf characters compared to Wonder Woman's?

Again, apologies if I'm not making any sense here.  Insomnia's a bitch.

ADDED: Basically what I'm getting at (Christ, I need sleep!): is this:

... if Hercules and in-the-sea Namor and Sasquatch and Wonderman and (perhaps even) Gladiator couldn't KO Superman, but someone with Superman's strength could KO Superman, what sort of level does that, if it does at all, put Superman over those Marvelers?

_FR



Edited by Frank Robert on 23 September 2006 at 3:55am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 23 September 2006 at 6:30am | IP Logged | 7  

It's not Superman's strength levels that are at issue, here. Superman could be the weakest fish in the bowl, but he'd still be invulnerable. That's a whole different thing from his super strength.
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 23 September 2006 at 6:51am | IP Logged | 8  

 Brett wrote:
...Roger, you've obviously been a member longer than me, but this is JB's house in a way.  I'm not sure it's rght for you to give the proverbial "punch in the chops" (ala your avatar...)...

 Brian wrote:
...In other words, Roger, your avatar sucks. 0-:-) ...
 
HEY! HEY! HEEEYYY!!! That's an avatar of me!!
 
I'm not sure why Roger chose to use me (I have no association with Roger other than reading his posts here), but am I that bad?
 
For the record, Roger took his avatar from my "Punch In The Chops" segment of "The Happy Show!," my public access TV program. I uploaded that segment to YouTube, where, apparently, Roger saw it.
 
It's a nifty avatar, I think. Roger, I'm just curious: Did you use it because you liked the segment, or just to be silly?
 
For those that block avatars, here's what we're discussing:
 


Edited by Matt Hawes on 23 September 2006 at 6:54am
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Robert White
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Posted: 23 September 2006 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 9  

I'm glad someone mentioned the crazy OHOTMU (Deluxe Edition) strength write up for Doc. A mere 20 tonner can knock out the Hulk? I think not. I don't put much stock in those limitations from a creative standpoint, but they are usually good indications on general strength levels. That being said...Doc Samson could lift a lot more than 20 tons. Anyone disagree?

The reason I asked if the same could have happened to JB's Superman is because his Superman took his lumps during that run. (One of the reasons it was the first time I cared about the character over the icon.) Looking back at the 80's Hulk, however, this was a character that was shrugging off dozens of field artillery shells and the destructive output of entire armies with ease...and frequently. What is the defining line of "invulnerable”?

I remember the handbook doubting that the Hulk could survive a direct hit from a nuclear weapon (Hasn't that been disproven? I missed those "Ground Zero" issues.) so I'm guessing the ability to withstand nuclear level force is what separates the earth bound tough guys (Hulk, Thing, Colossus) from the more cosmic tough guys (Superman, Surfer, Gladiator etc.)

(Oh, and wonky and confusing as it was (usually to DC fans…and intentionally), Class 100 (for the trillionth time) is the ability to lift OVER 100 tons not up to 100 tons. Reading comics that deal with superhuman weight machines and various other comic related supplements seem to point to a rule that science, even Marvel science, has a hard time building machines that can accurately test characters that can lift over 100 tons. Yeah, they should have just used "Incalculable" or stated that science couldn't measure said characters strength.)



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John Byrne
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Posted: 23 September 2006 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 10  

This thread makes me miss so very much the days when the Super Skrull was touted as being three times stronger than the Thing, since he (the Skrull) could lift fifteen tons!

Something Stan and Jack and Steve and the rest understood very well in those early days, is that these powers have to be comprehensible. That's not necessarily the same as "believable" -- can we truly "believe" someone can lift fifteen tons? -- but, rather, it's all about the reader being able to wrap his/her brain around the weights being named. "Fifteen tons" sounds very, very heavy -- but when we push up to 100 tons (90,700 kilograms), what do we mean? What common thing, that everyone can comprehend, weighs a hundred tons? (Rhetorical question.)

If someone can lift 100 tons, it's hard to be impressed when they lift anything less. But if they can lift 15 tons, and they work up a lather and lift more...

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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 23 September 2006 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 11  

Robert, I belive in the Master Edition of the OHOTMU, Class 100 strength was indicated as being able to lift between 90-100 tons.  Anything above 100 tons was considered "Incalculable".
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Robert White
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Posted: 23 September 2006 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 12  

I have no idea why Marvel decided that 100 tons (not 50 or 500) was the "magic number" but it seems to have stuck. Just for fun, I occassionally look up real world objects to see how much they weigh, and thinking back to Marvel characters, gauge if they could or couldn't lift said object. "Hmm, how much does the Sphinx weight? Could the Thing lift it?" Since I'm an occasional gamer (as in RPG's) that sort of thing has to be quantified for game purposes, so I guess that's why I'm so interested in the topic.

It is funny how jaded we are as fans. Once a guy lifts a skyscraper or grabs two tanks and throws them a mile it's hard to impress us anymore...
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