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Ted Mederson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 October 2007 Posts: 101
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 7:07am | IP Logged | 1
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INteresting reading this, because (SPOILERS for Spider-Man One More Day)...
...it seems as if the Spidey books have just rewound back to post-grad continuity, right down to Harry Osborn being alive again, MJ and Peter single, and Peter working at the Bugle as a freelance photographer.
While the transition is surely pretty awkward, I think this is a more appropriate status quo. If the stories are good, and fans can look forward from where things are (instead of focusing on how we got there), I think this is a great move. Yes, even though the continuity of the entire Marvel universe is a mess now...
What does everyone think?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134312
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 7:19am | IP Logged | 2
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Any such fix that is done "in continuity" is automatically doomed to failure. There are just too many people working in comics today who think their job is about jazzing their fanboy pals, not producing the best stories they can. So any fix that is not done as an editorial fiat will fail, because these guys will try to sneak little jokes and references past the editors -- and lord help us if the editors are in on the "joke"!! -- to say "Look how clever I am! I can break the rules!"As long as the prevailing attitudes in comics are what used to be the exclusive province of fanzines, there can be no permanent fixes. Just an unending stream of stunts and patches.
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Pascal LISE Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 29 July 2006 Location: France Posts: 1111
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 7:35am | IP Logged | 3
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As much as I would like it, I don't think it's possible to fix things with a
rewind and I'm not even sure it would be a good thing.
A fast forward to the next House of ideas age is what is needed.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134312
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 4
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It's always preferable to move forward, rather than back, when doing something in a creative field. Problem with Fast Forward, as opposed to Rewind, tho, is that it plays too much to the desires of the aging fanboys, who would insist that every detail of "continuity" be preserved into the next incarnations. (Imagine if the DC rebirth of the 1950s had been done with the Internet in full force, and fanboys running the show.)This is why the idea of a giant RESET began to grow in my mind. As noted, done as an editorial fiat, rather than an in-continuity "event", it draws a line across which no one is then allowed to pass. The "continuity" between point A (the rewind point) and point Z (where we are now) is gone, and only such elements of it as are duly considered and seen to have actually worked can be brought back. And, unlike what happened with Superman when I left, for instance, it does not become about how much can be brought back. Not everyone will agree on what was a good idea and what was not, of course, but this is why someone with a strong, single-minded vision would be needed to oversee the whole thing. And why that individual would have to be equipped with a death-ray, to deal with anybody who thought it would be "cute" to try to subvert the whole thing.
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Greg Woronchak Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 1631
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 5
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And why that individual would have to be equipped with a death-ray
Lol, I can just picture it <g>....
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12902
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 6
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How do (or, if different than today, did) editors get their positions on comic books? How could a "super"-EIC get full control of, say, Marvel and do a rewind? Who in the company could (or would) greenlight this?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134312
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 7
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Ultimately, the Command would have to come from the Publishers. Who
would presumably hire somebody who could then do the job.
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Joakim Jahlmar Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 10 October 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 6080
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 8
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What really seems to be needed is a brand new universe from minds similar to those of Lee, Kirby and Ditko, et al, with enough knowledge to set the rules up proerly and keep the rule breakers out of the playground. Don't get me wrong, the idea of getting Marvel or DC back into a wholly good place sounds great, but getting it there and being able to keep it there seems nigh impossible in the current climate. Starting from scratch would seem to have a slight bit more potential.... and maybe the people who want to write in the certain fashion that's upset the balances in the current big two can build their very own playground to play around in as well. So they don't have to start trying to creep into the new sound universe.
Actually, to this day, I cannot for the life of me understand why certain people insist on twisting in turning characters inside and out, instead of "creating" a similarly powered hero in another fictional universe and tell the stories they want to tell (which clearly aren't stories about the original character anyway). I do think that some of the stories aren't necessarily bad per se, they just become bad because the wrong ingredients were used.
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Lars Johansson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 04 June 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 6113
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 9
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I think it was a good idea with a Superman reboot, since it told the audience that what was was great, but now whe have new creators who do what they can do with their abilities. The book I was working on consisited of people doing something that they thought was an improvement, while it wasn't. More colorful, errors and amateur-like adventurous style maybe, but not better. It would have been much better if they had this is in mind, Rembrandt, van gogh or whoever did what he did and no we do what we do. Period. And really tell/show everybody this, which MoS did. The reboot in itself was nothing, it was what it signalled.
(removed a sentence that maybe looked unfriendly due to my bad English)
Edited by Lars Johansson on 28 December 2007 at 9:51am
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Peter Svensson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 30 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1470
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 10
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"
One problem with CRISIS #12 -- Wonder Woman had been "killed." I never saw the point of that."
Wolfman discussed it at one point. The idea was that DC knew that Wonder Woman was going to get a major reimagining, but hadn't yet come up with the idea of just rebooting the character from scratch, so Wonder Woman being reverted to the clay she was originally formed of was intended so that whoever revamped Wonder Woman would make the new one out of the clay of the old.
Setting up a literal rebirth that never happened.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12902
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 11:14am | IP Logged | 11
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Is a rewind something that could likely be sold today to the publishers of DC and Marvel?
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Pascal LISE Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 29 July 2006 Location: France Posts: 1111
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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It's always preferable to move forward, rather than back, when doing
something in a creative field. Problem with Fast Forward, as opposed to
Rewind, tho, is that it plays too much to the desires of the aging fanboys,
who would insist that every detail of "continuity" be preserved into the
next incarnations.
I understood your point about your idea for a Rewind but when I was
saying "Fast Forward", I didn't mean to preserve anything.
I actually meant that we should hope for a new creative output to happen
as soon as possible… something like the way Kirby and Lee totally
revitalized the super-hero genre in the 60's.
So, no continuity involved… but rather new characters without a legacy of
several decades of continuity.
I want a sense of wonder back in comics especially for the new young
readers who could at last experience the excitment I got when the FFs
were meeting Galactus for the first time !
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