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Jason Schulman
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | 1  

I'd rewind Marvel back to 1973, right before Gwen Stacy was killed, and prevent that story from happening. Barring that, back to 1980, right before Phoenix was killed, and go with the original planned ending to "The Dark Phoenix Saga." Barring that, I'd go back to 1984, right before Secret Wars, and do everything I could to prevent it fro being published.

The "perfect moment" for DC seems less obvious to me. I think I'd go back to 1984, and instead of CRISIS being published, I'd argue for a sort of final JSA/JLA team-up in Justice League of America which would be The Last Crisis on Multiple Earths Story. Some big cosmic story which would end with no one able to cross the vibratory barrier between universes and which would provide a "soft reboot" to certain characters (the then-contemporary, "Earth-One" versions of Superman, Wonder Woman, Hawkman and Hawkwoman, and Black Canary). Various older stories would be rendered non-canonical from there-on out (various Weisinger-era Superman stories and ideas, most post-Denny O'Neil-era Wonder Woman stories, any story that suggests that there were superheroes on Earth-One before Superboy and Wonder Woman). Infinity Inc. would be canceled but All-Star Squadron would still be published as the only "Earth-Two" book, with all its stories still taking place in the 1940s.
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Scott McKeeve
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 10:54pm | IP Logged | 2  

"I have to agree with John Wyatt.  Take whatever favorite character you may have and drop him or her into today's modern comics world, and you have a lamb in an abattoir.  There isn't really a character I had more fondness for than the Roy Lincoln Human Bomb.  Growing up, I "got" the loneliness and isolation of the character and his plight, and I liked that he had a team to hang out with in spite of it all.  The character had history, having debuted in the same issue of Police Comics with Plastic Man. He used to pal around with a guy named Hustace Throckmorton who had explosive feet! He wasn't overexposed. I liked his low-tech costume and appearance.  His existance on an alternate earth. Everything.  I liked everything about the guy.  And I never once pined for his reappearance in a modern comic, because I knew what I would get.  I would get what I got when he and the rest of the Freedom Fighters showed up in Infinite Crisis.  A death scene.  A fairly clever one, one that was not badly written, taken on its own terms, but a death scene.  Because Bizarro, and Black Hand, and Grodd, and every bad guy you ever met is a mass murderer today, and any character with the slightest notion of nostalgia clinging to him or her is marked for immediate death or "reimagining."  There is a Human Bomb in the DC Universe today, some sort of paramilitary badass with a high-tech armored suit and a history of criminal wrongdoing, if memory of the one issue I've read concerning the new team serves me correctly.  But I don't care.  I'm not railing from the rooftops or conducting a private boycott regarding the matter.  It is what it is.  I'm certain the new guy has his fans."

I don't know if that was JB's intention with this thread but that pretty much sums up the problem with creative side in comics today. Well said, Brian. I could not agree more with you.

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Brian Hague
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | 3  

Thanks, Scott.  I've been enjoying reading your posts as well!

 

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Lars Sandmark
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Posted: 26 December 2007 at 1:08am | IP Logged | 4  


In Hindsight, Crisis was a Catastrophe.
It SHOULD have worked, but it fell apart because of the Powers That Were.
It needs a Do-Over (minus the mistakes)

Man Of Steel by Byrne! Perfect! If only they stuck with the plan,
it Could've been what it Should've been.

1985 should get another chance.
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Scott McKeeve
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Posted: 26 December 2007 at 1:34am | IP Logged | 5  

"Man Of Steel by Byrne! Perfect! If only they stuck with the plan,
it Could've been what it Should've been.

1985 should get another chance."

Actually, the fact that JB's reboot lasted as long as it did is pretty amazing considering the flakeyness of editorial integrity of the comics industry.

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Emery Calame
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Posted: 26 December 2007 at 1:41am | IP Logged | 6  

I'd say tweak a couple of things about the DC animated Universe Timm and Dini came up with and make THAT the DC universe.

As for Marvel....I dunno. Rewinding to about 1979 sounds about right.

Cut down on the crossovers and shock crap and NEVER EVER have a story jump from book to book.



Edited by Emery Calame on 26 December 2007 at 1:43am
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John Staton
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Posted: 26 December 2007 at 6:37am | IP Logged | 7  

1986, I was just getting into comics as a kid.

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Steven McCauley
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Posted: 26 December 2007 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 8  

DC:  Right after the Crisis -- but done right.  Someone work out all the math and have everything add up, have Wonder Woman not be a new addition to continuity, don't mess with the Silver Age Hawkman and Hawkwoman, let Superboy continue, etc.  It could be some giant slingshot effect created by the collapse of the multi-verse.

Marvel:  Seconds before the death of Phoenix.  Turns out the Marvel Universe had been shunted into a parallel universe all living within the all-powerful Phoenix Force.  Jean Grey is Phoenix and all stories since then have been constructs of that reality.

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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 26 December 2007 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 9  

Hmm, looks like my pick (1983) seems popular <g>....
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 26 December 2007 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 10  

In re Marvel...

Right before Gwen Stacy dies -- very tempting. Either that, or a short time later, just to get the new X-Men debuted. Love the characters.

So, for me: 1975.

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Joakim Jahlmar
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Posted: 26 December 2007 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 11  

Paul Kimball wrote:
"I wouldn't reset to an exact time as I'm not willing to lose sandman,  sleeper, starman, manhunter, 100 bullets and a lot of current work but I would reset back to....."

Why would a reset make you "lose" these stories, Paul? The comics would still exist, just no longer as part of continuity, and speaking for Gaiman's Sandman which is the one I feel I know best of the ones you mention, did that ever really feel as an in-continuity comic? Sure there were some brief references to characters on occasions, but those were rarely the most significant parts of the story anyway.

Brian Hague wrote:
"The premise of this thread as outlined is not a science fiction concept.  Walt's Thor and every story you ever enjoyed would still exist, nothing would be 'lost,' (shades of the voices of the first Crisis mini). The comics of July 2008 would simply start off as accessible and well-considered as the books of yesterday were.  But the idea does lose steam when one tries to imagine that the writers of today could, even if they wanted to, manage to write in a style that left the characters in a usable condition for the next team.  They can't.  They wouldn't if they could.  Every 'important' team distorts the concepts to suit their own creative vision, and the next team must either expunge that interpretation, carry on with a severely altered status quo, or simply "ignore" months of continuity to chart their own course."

Agreed, Brad. One of the main problems is that too few of the people working in the industry have that more accessible approach. On some level that means that a reset isn't the best first measure to solve it, the first measure needs to be to get certain writers and artists (and I'd some of whose work, I at least partially like and enjoy) out of the regular, mainstream superhero universes, be it Marvel or DC.

To suggest something for the basic premise and initial question... I cannot give an exact year, not because I'm having major indecisions per se (though I do to some extent), but rather because of the time lag between publication in the Us and Sweden. I can't give an answer for DC, since I'm not qualified having always been more of a Marvel man, but I utterly enjoyed (and still do) the Marvel comics I read here in Sweden throughout the 80s, which I believe would be mid/late 70s up until mid/late 80s in the US (but as stated, a year here becomes impossible for me to pinpoint accurately). Rather (and maybe somebody else could put a date on it) I'd say that it'd probably be a good plan to reset Marvel time to a point before the influence of the "hip" kewl gang who later ran off to found Image would be a factor. Anything before that could possibly be treated in a manner where smaller specific flaws would be less focus upon.

In the end, it all comes down to finding good editors (and especially E-i-Cs) who find the proper talent for the job. And proper does not necessarily mean anyone who's written good comics (loev a lot of Grant Morrison and Mike Carey stuff, but remain nconvinced that they should be doing anything with in continuity characters or mainstream superheroes). Going back to books where occasional small scale crossovers may occur and the feeling of a big universe remains, but books are mostly separate, allowing for build ups of stories through the use of subplots (a technique of which JB is of course a master that many a contemporary writing -for-the-trade writer could learn a whole heckuva lot), where arcs are sometimes used but isn't necessarily the rule, yet is somehow generated through these subplots and resulting in a grander type of storytelling. And all this, would mean easier access for new readers and a revitalisation of the entire superhero genre.

Or maybe our hope is that there'll be another, more all ages friendly, super hero universe... slowly accessing our world through the brain of Master Osborne (i.e. Wayne, not Norman). Yes, durn it, I have some high hopes for FX, but a man may be allowed to dream, right?
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Derek Muthart
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Posted: 26 December 2007 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 12  

As much as I loved the books from the 80's I don't feel like the wheels fell off the wagon until 1996 when the Liefeld Avengers and Jim Lee Fantastic Four were published.

When Marvel decided to throw continuity completely out the window I hung on for a few months before throwing in the towel for several years. 

I miss the times when character crossovers were special, covers didn't have three different versions, stories could be told in one issue and the Marvel and DC universes had a cohesive feel. 

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