Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 12 Next >>
Topic: Project Rewind (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
L’Homme Diabolique

Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7592
Posted: 26 December 2007 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 1  

The relaunch smoothed things out and allowed opportunities like Captain Marvel joining the JLA, which I enjoyed.

****

I'm curious what titles you were reading that were "smoothed out" -- because with few exceptions the DC titles I read were filled with frayed edges and desperate attempts at explaining what the heck was going on.   Certainly MOS and the Superman reboot was a thing of beauty; if every DC title had been given the same treatment, CRISIS could have been a rousing success.  But why were some titles restarted, and others continued?  Why were some pre-CRISIS events still referenced while others were eliminated.  Why was Wonder Girl around longer than Wonder Woman?  What the heck was the deal with Hawkman and Hawkgirl?  Power Girl?  The Huntress?  Superboy?  Two decades later writers are still trying to explain this stuff away.

Chaos.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Thomas Moudry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5060
Posted: 26 December 2007 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | 2  

Must admit, I liked Captain Marvel, the Marvel Family, and the other Fawcett
heroes and villains on Earth-S. That way, when Superman and Captain
Marvel met up, it was something kind of special.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Darren Taylor
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 6039
Posted: 26 December 2007 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 3  

Given the opportunity, I'd probably go back to the moment that all the Heroes returned from The Secret Wars. My reasoning for this, I must admit would have some degree of nostalgia involved but perhaps a little method in my madness?

The "Event" lead culture that seems so prevelant in Marvel now, I' pretty sure, in no small meassur "thanks" to the "success" or SW. It's a point from whence a lot of the characters began to branch out and change. I'd like to see a Marvel that carried on from there that stuck with the characters they had and not try and change them.

We'd get to keep the She Hulk having been a member of the FF. The Black Spiderman, breifly and of course The Thing returning to find,well, that not quite everything was rosey back at the ole homestead!

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Lars Johansson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 June 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6113
Posted: 26 December 2007 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 4  

Thom wrote: For DC, it's fairly simple for me.  Revert everything to the way it was immediately before CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS.

******************

But isn't that what they have done and weaving it into the stories so we don't notice.

Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Chad Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 9584
Posted: 26 December 2007 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | 5  

 

I don't want to pick a year in which I personally found more titles to read than I ever had, since around 1986-1988 or so was the Beginning of the End, or Where the Problem Started, even though I was loving a ton of stuff at that time.

For Marvel, I will go with 1980...post TOMB OF DRACULA, post Roger Stern's HULK run, just mere issues into Miller's revitilization of DAREDEVIL, deep into Wolfman/Pollard's AMAZING SPIDER-MAN...1980 is the culmination of the synergy between fanbase and creators before the speculators rolled in, before you couldn't buy X-MEN 137 or DAREDEVIL 181 for less than 12 bucks mere months after release. I feel like the heroes of the MU were at their apex, still just rich enough in history and characterization to be poignant to the generation raised by them, but prior to the convolution and inbreeding of the fannish passions run rampant in the decades after.

For DC, it's much more difficult. I feel like the Doom Patrol is critical to DC Comics history, particularly where they mark the end of the Silver Age with the detonation of the bomb that destroyed them. As such, the DP is notably absent from DC's 1970s, a time in which they could have, I believe, florished. I could even go as far as to say that the "DC Explosion" failed primarily because the true icons of "change" in the DCU, the Doom Patrol (their comic changed DC Comics forever, in my opinion), did not exist. I guess the "New" Doom Patrol appeared in the 1970s, but the classic version had perished. I'm convinced that the Doom Patrol as they had been, COULD have been the catalyst for DC's resurgence in the 1970s. If one considers the possibilities of Neal Adams/Steve Gerber, or Marv Wolfman/George Perez, or David Michelinie/Keith Giffen/Wally Wood on DOOM PATROL, I believe DC might have experienced the competitive success they waited for. So, in answer, the year would be 1975...enough time to sufficiently give the Doom Patrol's death its due, with their return in 1975 under the "Explosion", and onward into the next decade, rendering CRISIS moot (due to DC's success with something other than the typical superhero narrative, with more diversity in their line than ever) and saving us all from today's excesses.

 

Back to Top profile | search
 
Rick Senger
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9734
Posted: 26 December 2007 at 7:33pm | IP Logged | 6  

DC: 1974.  The first year I started reading DC comics in earnest and they were perfect.  I will still buy basically anything DC from 1973 or 1974 because it is an instant trip back to my childhood from the familiar ads about seeds and Charles Atlas and the Johnson Smith Catalog to the reliably great art of some of the older school guys like Swan and Giordano and Dillin and Novick and Cardy and Blaisdell.  The next generation was breaking in (or about to break in) like Grell, Cockrum, Perez, Wiacek but for me the old schoolers were the standard of professionalism and classicism.  The stories were still old school, too... the longtime editors and publishers like Julius Schwartz and Mort Weisinger were still running the show and the rules and sense of wonder were, for me, completely intact.  You also get all those 100 pagers for 60c... what a deal!

Marvel: 1981.  A number of people already have mentioned this year or 80 or 82 or 83 and I agree that this is the last great peak for the company in the past quarter century.  And, once again, it is coincidentally when I first really got into Marvel.  The next generation was going full bore but there was still some control and work ethic and reliability.  The stories were branching out but they were still grounded in classic Marvel rules.  No "Ultimates," no alternate covers, no gimmicks.  Just great storytelling and art. 

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Ron Chevrier
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1641
Posted: 26 December 2007 at 10:57pm | IP Logged | 7  

I guess I misunderstood the question somewhat. For DC, I'd rewind to about 1980, when Perez and Wolfman began the New Teen Titans book. Most of the major DC characters were still recognizable, the JLA, JSA, and Legion counted all their major characters as members, respectively, and no one was turning gay/getting raped/maimed/killed as a monthly sales ploy.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Scott McKeeve
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 November 2007
Posts: 835
Posted: 26 December 2007 at 11:50pm | IP Logged | 8  

"I'm curious what titles you were reading that were "smoothed out" -- because with few exceptions the DC titles I read were filled with frayed edges and desperate attempts at explaining what the heck was going on."

Good question, Thom. I really enjoyed the Post-Crisis JLA with Marvel, Dr. Fate, Guy Gardner, Batman, Blue Beetle, etc. It was a great book that kept the quality up for years. The relaunch of the JSA was also noteworthy. Having just one Batman again instead of an old, dead one and a young, alive one was waaaay better. Wonder Woman's origin was cleaned up quite successfully and JB managed to put a Wonder Woman in the JSA again. Wally West's adventures with a variety of classic speedsters such as Max Mercury and Jay Garrick were very fun. Thank you, Mr Waid.

Also, great miniseries such as Kingdom Come and The Dark Knight Returns came about because of the rebooted DC Universe.

Granted, some characters that you mentioned, Thom, like Powergirl and Huntress did not fair so well historically. But that's more a result of bad writing and editing than of the reboot itself. Those two characters in particular were secondary characters that were female derivatives of more famous male icons. I'm not saying I don't like them, just that they got swept to the side while more mainstream characters got the attention. I'm sure JB spent a ton of hours reimagining Superman. How many hours did someone spend figuring out where Powergirl fits in?

Also, being a big Grimjack fan, I thought Tim Truman's Hawkworld was a fantastic miniseries. Any comic fan who watched the riots in Paris over the last couple of years should read Hawkworld. Lost of parallels.  

Back to Top profile | search
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5741
Posted: 27 December 2007 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 9  

Since this exercise is without the use of a time machine we can't fix the "wrongs" before they happen, we just ignore they happened right?  So if those are thr ground rules I would reboot Marvel to 1973 (right before Gwen Stacey died) and DC to 1978 (right after the Englehart/Rodgers Detective run except by Judicial Fiat Robin is 14 not 18/19).

I think we would have an early  college age Peter Parker (like a freshman), Gwen could simply fade into the recesses as previous girlfriends did and not become a martyr.  The Green Goblin would still be a force and frightening villian.  Most other Marvel books would be in good enough shape that there would be easy start ups!  And the X-Men would be superheroes again (also this this would be a "backdoor" way to have the hidden years of the X-Men "out in the open")!  Think about it -- the X-Men would be accessable to new readers.

For DC I think Batman is in a good place in 1978, the Teen Titans could be TEENS!  Barry is Flash (and I think Iris is still alive), Hal is GL, the JLA are in the Satellite.

If todays talent had a crack at these I think you would have to keep them from making the mistakes of the past (Crisis, darkening of characters from heroes to anti-heroes) but could embrace the good (e.g. Miller's Daredevil changes, the New X-Men, most of the stuff Geoff Johns has done in GL could work in 1978 continuity with some tweaks).

JB, if my years were adopted and you were offered your choice of book by either company -- what would you pick? 

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134288
Posted: 27 December 2007 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 10  

Marvel -- X-MEN with the original crew.

DC -- GREEN LANTERN
Back to Top profile | search
 
Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
Posted: 27 December 2007 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 11  

Fantasy dream date:


JB and Hal Jordan----

what a team! I can't help but imagine the amazing space-scapes.  This and Dr. Strange have always been two titles that were I EIC i would offer to you.

Would you want writing chores as well, or would like to collaborate, or perhaps art robot?

Don
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5741
Posted: 27 December 2007 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 12  

JB:

Marvel -- X-MEN with the original crew.

DC -- GREEN LANTERN

Would you eventually introduce the "New" X-Men? And would you draw GL with the "shoulders" or without?

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 12 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login