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Topic: Question for JB an homage to the Shroud? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 16 March 2008 at 1:30am | IP Logged | 1  


When I saw Batman Begins, I felt like the whole thing had been cribbed from The Shadow. 


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John Enda McDonagh
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Posted: 16 March 2008 at 6:38am | IP Logged | 2  

David Goyer wrote the screenplay for Batman Begins, and he was definitely familiar with the Shadow. In an article for Comics Scene, David Goyer noted that he wrote a screenplay for Doctor Strange in the 1990's. He noted that he wanted to follow the origin storyline-a selfish, acquisitive man gets redeemed when going to Tibet and studying under a mystic. Then The Shadow came out in 1994 which features a similar origin. So he rewrote his Doctor Strange screenplay to not focus on Tibet. However, Goyer felt no compunctions about including Tibet in Batman Begins. Goyer stated this in Comics Scene #49, published around 1994.

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Hunter McFalls
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Posted: 16 March 2008 at 2:31pm | IP Logged | 3  

Super Villian Team-Up #14: I love this cover!
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Ed Love
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Posted: 17 March 2008 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 4  

To bring it back to the Shroud, the Shroud strikes me not so much as
cribbing from Batman, but trying to draw on many of the similar pulpish
elements that lead to Batman. His name echoes the Shadow, his blindness
the Black Bat, and the mysticism the Green Lama.
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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 17 March 2008 at 8:00am | IP Logged | 5  

Is Tibet occupied by China in the Marvel or DC Earths?

I can see Bruce Wayne campaigning for its independence and Dr. Doom
walking in and liberating the damn thing himself if that was the case.

Edited by Richard Stevens on 17 March 2008 at 8:01am
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Wayde Murray
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Posted: 17 March 2008 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 6  

Greg Kirkman wrote:
Some have said that Batman seeks vengeance on all criminals because they are basically substitutes for the man who killed his parents. I disagree with this. The original backstory makes it clear that young Mr. Wayne is waging war on all criminals. He has felt the devastating effects of crime, and devotes his life to combating it.

In my view, Batman seeks justice, not vengeance. He seeks to protect the innocent, not to punish the guilty. He is not taking his anger for one man out on an entire sub-class of society.


Precisely. If he did the opposite, he would be Victor Von Doom, who has essentially the same origin but different motivation.


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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 March 2008 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 7  

I just had a notion; d'you suppose Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne could have
inadvertently bumped into each other or had an adventure together without
realizing it in the years that they traveled the globe?


••

One of the things I planned for future iterations of GENERATIONS was to
continue a "motif" of "first meetings" between Bruce and Clark, each one
different. That would have been one of them.
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 17 March 2008 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 8  

Whenever I feel almost arrogant enough to want to mess with perfection, I sometimes think that if I were making a Batman film, I'd place the "bat through the window " scene either prior to or during Bruce's training. A lot of what Bruce learned during his travels appears to have been done with the knowledge that he'll be a "creature of the night" (e.g. his ability to "vanish" at a moment's notice, use stealth, and even his ability to make criminals crap their pants with a look or a lowered voice).
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Horace Austin
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Posted: 17 March 2008 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | 9  

Super Villian Team-Up #14: I love this cover!

***

That original cover has been a Holy Grail for one of the most prominet collectors in the hobby for years.

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John Enda McDonagh
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Posted: 17 March 2008 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | 10  

In Superman Odyssey#2, Wayne and Kent met as the former left a meeting with the Rhana Butra. This occured when Kent was a young man.

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John Enda McDonagh
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Posted: 17 March 2008 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | 11  

Is Tibet occupied by China in the Marvel or DC Earths?

..........................................................

Earth-616's Tibet is. In Doctor Strange III#36, when Thanos caused widespead devastation, PRC soldiers barged into the retreat of the monks that had trained Doom in the mystic arts and demanded they use their powers to address Thanos' devastation.

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John Enda McDonagh
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Posted: 22 March 2008 at 3:01am | IP Logged | 12  

"Not the Batman I grew up with! He'd traveled the world, studying with all
those who were already masters of the arts and sciences he felt he needed."

Amazing Heroes#84 has an article on the pre-history of the Earth-1 Dark Knight, and I don't recall reading much about him having travelled abroad during his preparation. That list from John Wells I posted only named four trainers for the Pre-Crisis era.

http://darkmark6.tripod.com/batmanind1.html

The pre-chronology of Batman and Robin on Earth-One is as follows:
 BATMAN #304 (2) fb: Birth of Bruce Wayne.
 UNTOLD LEGEND OF THE BATMAN #3 (fb): Bruce Wayne plays doctor with Thomas Wayne.
 WORLD’S FINEST COMICS #146 (fb): Dr. Thomas Ellison, baby-sitting Bruce Wayne, teaches him Kryptonese.
 DETECTIVE COMICS #235 (fb): While Bruce is still young, Dr. Thomas Wayne goes to a costume party with his wife, costumed as a “Bat-Man”, and first encounters gangster Lew Moxon, whom he captures.  Moxon swears vengeance on Wayne at his trial.
 DC #481 (fb): Bruce Wayne learns of Xavier Simon from Thomas Wayne.
 BM #386 (fb): Bruce Wayne meets Roman Sionis.
 BM #259 (fb): Bruce Wayne and Thomas Wayne meet the Shadow.
 BRAVE AND THE BOLD #99 (fb): Bruce Wayne has a summer outing with his parents.
 DC #370 (fb): Bruce Wayne meets Bart Lambert.
 BRAVE AND THE BOLD #184 (fb): On the Christmas before his parents die, Bruce Wayne meets Amos Randolph.
 DC #235 (fb): Lew Moxon, released from jail, tells Thomas Wayne that he intends to have him killed (pg. 5, panels 5-6)
 BM ANNUAL #9 (fb): Bruce Wayne interrupts a sculpting project to go with his parents to the movies.
 DC #265 (fb): Joe Chill murders Thomas and Martha Wayne (pg. 3, panels 1-2) NOTE: This takes place on November 25th.  Bruce is 13 years old.
  BATMAN #259 (fb)
 DC #457 (fb): Minutes after his parents’ death, Bruce Wayne meets Leslie Thompkins.
 SUPERBOY #182 (fb): A day after his parents’ death, Bruce Wayne returns to the site of their murder and sees Otis Higbee with “evidence” of a zodiac killer.
 BM #208 (fb): Two days after his parents’ death, Bruce comes into the care of his uncle Philip and Philip’s housekeeper, Mrs. Chilton, who is actually the mother of Joe and Max Chill.
 BM #208 (fb): At his parents’ funeral, Bruce Wayne vows to dedicate his life to fighting criminals and bringing their murderer to justice.
  BM ANNUAL #9 (fb)
 DC #235 (fb): Bruce repeats his oath before his parents’ portrait.
  DC #265 (fb)
 BM ANNUAL #9 (fb): Bruce smashes the sculpture he was working on the night he went to  the movies with his parents.
 DC #235 (fb): Bruce begins training himself in athletics and science.
  DC #265 (fb)
  ULOTB #1 (fb)
 DC #226 (fb): Bruce Wayne becomes the first Robin to team up with detective Harvey Harris.
 WFC #84 (fb): In summer between his freshman and sophomore years in high school, Bruce Wayne meets Superboy and tries to learn his secret identity.
 ADVENTURE COMICS #275: Bruce Wayne briefly returns to Smallville in his sophomore year of high school, teams with Superboy as the Flying Fox, learns of his future identity as Batman, and has the memory of it erased.
 SUPERBOY #182: Bruce encounters Superboy a third time during his junior year of high school, teams with him as the Executioner, learns the truth about the phony “zodiac killer”, and discards his third costumed identity.
 SUPERBOY SPECTACULAR #1: Bruce meets Superboy a fourth and final time during a baseball game, after Superboy has blanked out his own knowledge of Bruce’s future.
 ULOTB #1 (fb): Bruce goes to college, meets Prof. Rexford, and decides not to become a conventional detective.
 BM #304 (fb): Bruce plays college football.
 BM #96 (2) (fb): Bruce Wayne meets and makes a rival of  Joe Danton.
 BM #188 (fb): Still at college, Bruce encounters Lenny Fiasco.
 BM #165 (fb): Bruce Wayne encounters Patricia Powell at college.
 BM #208 (fb): Bruce graduates college and is congratulated by uncle Philip and Mrs. Chilton.
 ULOTB #1 (fb): Bruce goes to his parents’ grave and confesses he cannot become a policeman, but will find another way to fight crime.
 BM #304 (fb): Bruce is counselled by Dr. Douglas Dundee, the doctor who delivered him.
 DC #235 (fb): Musing on how criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot, and seeking a disguise to strike terror into their hearts, Bruce Wayne sees a bat fly in through an open window of Wayne Manor and is inspired to become the Batman.
  DC #265 (fb)
  BM #200 (fb)
  ULOTB #1 (fb)
 JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #37 (fb):  Batman captures two crooks on a rooftop
 DC #265 (fb): After modifying his costume somewhat, Batman captures the criminal who will later become the Clock.
 DC #227 (fb): Batman meets impersonation and makeup artist Barrett Kean, who teaches him the tricks of disguise.
 DC #471 (mentioned): Batman has his first encounter with Dr. Hugo Strange.
 BM #108 (fb): Batman meets the infant who will become Batman Jones.
 DC #244 (fb): Batman meets Lee Collins, who designs the Batarang.
 DC #234 (fb): Batman uses his Batplane for the first time to save an old bi-plane.
 DC #231 (fb): John Vance becomes Batman, Jr. for one adventure to help Batman fight Birrel Binter.
 DC #350 (fb): Batman meets the Monarch of Menace.
 BM #129 (fb): Batman meets Dick Grayson, trains him to become Robin, and teams with him to defeat “Boss” Zucco.
  BM #200 (fb)
  BM #213
  ULOTB #2 (fb)
 ULOTB #2 (fb): Batman and Robin meet the Red Hood, who later becomes the Joker. BM #208 (fb): Batman and Robin meet Clayface I. (Julie Madison is Bruce’s girlfriend during this adventure.)
 (undepicted): Batman’s and Robin’s first encounter with the Joker.
 DC #234 (fb): Batman visits Commissioner Gordon and gains his approval and that of the Gotham police by solving a robbery at the Museum of Time.
  ULOTB #2 (fb)
 DC #471 (mentioned): Batman battles Hugo Strange again.
 BM #208 (fb): Batman and Robin first encounter the Cat, later known as the Catwoman.
 DC #227 (fb): Batman and Robin help find an escaped convict, nab crooks, save a lion-tamer, and substitute for an ailing cop.
 DC #234 (fb): Batman and Robin fight a giant robot, save two people from a fire, capture undersea crooks, and capture a crook in a machine shop.
 BM #208 (fb): Batman helps Linda Page and her brother against Mike Grogan.
 BM #189 (fb): Batman and Robin first battle the Scarecrow.
 BEST OF DC #10 (fb):  Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot becomes the Penguin.
 BM #234 (fb): Batman and Robin have their first encounters with Two-Face, who has his face repaired by plastic surgery.
 (undepicted): Batman and Robin meet Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
 BM #110 (fb): Alfred Pennyworth becomes Bruce Wayne’s butler and discovers that he and Dick Grayson are Batman and Robin.
 BM #133 (fb): Batman and Robin battle the Robber Baron.
 (undepicted): Batman and Robin first battle the Cavalier.
 BM #112 (mentioned): Batman and Robin meet Carter Nichols and travel back to ancient Rome on their first time-trip.
 (undepicted): Batman and Robin meet Joe Coyne and gain the giant penny trophy for the Batcave.
 DC #235 (fb): Batman finds Joe Chill, his parents’ murderer, who is soon killed by other gangsters.
  ULOTB #1 (fb)
 DC #244 (fb) Batman and Robin catch counterfeiters, payroll bandits, and Jay Garris.
 DC #251 (fb): Batman and Robin save an electrician’s life.
 BM #171 (fb): Batman and Robin first encounter the Riddler.
 (undepicted): Batman meets the original Mad Hatter and Vicki Vale. 
 

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