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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134284
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| Posted: 17 February 2009 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 1
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what I found most troubling about the images linked above are the number
of children....the Hitler Youth were massive in their number. Don't tell me
they ALL just stopped believing the hatred they were taught
••
Two memories stand out sharply from my childhood. Across the hall in the
apartment in which my family lived when I was about 12 was a German
couple. He had been in the Luftwaffe, but had been shot down over
Russia six months into the War and had spent the rest of it in a prison camp.
She was actually Austrian, and expressed to my mother one day how sad she
had been as a girl, that she had not been allowed to join the Hitler Youth
because of her nationality. (Something for those on the Forum who
appreciate irony.)
At a different time she wondered aloud, "If Hitler killed all the Jews, why are
there still so many of them, and all rich?"
No, Ari, they most certainly did not just stop believing!
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Aric Shapiro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4349
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| Posted: 17 February 2009 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 2
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"At a different time she wondered aloud, "If Hitler killed all the Jews, why are
there still so many of them, and all rich?"
My blood is staring to boil again....
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William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
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| Posted: 17 February 2009 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | 3
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Ft. Bliss
*******
I spent a month down there in 1995. Had to shake scorpions out of my shoes every morning. Of course I was sleeping in a hex tent but still....
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Aric Shapiro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17 February 2009 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 4
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"Children often cheer the head of the state without necessarily understanding what that head of state stands for (or even knowing that a head of state does stand for something). "
These were more than six year old's standing around at a parade and cheerig. Many were older, much older and were quite aware.
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Andrew Hess
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17 February 2009 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 5
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Ari said: ..."Don't tell me they ALL just stopped believing the hatred they were taught"
*************
No, but fortunately some have.
We have a friend who was in the Nazi youth when she was very young, maybe 5-6 years old at the most. She says she has spent her whole life trying to get over and reconcile being swept up into that Nazi-led national euphoria.
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Aric Shapiro
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 17 February 2009 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 6
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"She says she has spent her whole life trying to get over and reconcile being swept up into that Nazi-led national euphoria."
Any many have spent entire lifetimes trying to forgive the atrocities of a Nation
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Andrew Hess
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 17 February 2009 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 7
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Completely agree with you, Ari.
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Joakim Jahlmar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 8
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JB wrote:
“I've told of a dinner party a few years back where one of the guests -- a guy we had all known for years by that point -- flabberghasted all else present, including his own wife, by casually revealing himself to be a Holocaust denier. Just slid right out in conversation as if it was the most natural thing on Earth to say.”
That’s one really frightening little tale, JB. I’m rather glad I haven’t had anything similar happen, although one can’t help but wonder if there are any such hidden belief or disbelief in ones own vicinity.
Vinny wrote:
“I'll never understand the Holocaust deniers. It's one thing to think it was a good thing or whatever, but to say that it never happened? What about the scads of footage of the atrocities in action? How do they actually answer that?”
What I find really frustrating is the fact that a great deal of the people who deny that the Holocaust happened, often give voice to opinions that suggests that they wouldn’t be against it happening as a general idea. Which strikes me as somewhat paradoxical or at least disingenuous. If you think it’s a good idea, why not “celebrate” the “achievement” and take a stand for one’s own insane belief, rather than basically repeating “it didn’t happen, it didn’t happen... but it wouldn’t be a bad idea”...
Truly sickening.
JB wrote:
“Which is why the First Amendment really does need that ‘except for assholes’ clause!”
The problem of course, as always, being who gets to decide the definition of assholes... continuously down the road. Might only be a matter of time before the assholes use that very thing against the people whom it was created to protect from the assholes in the first place.
But yes, there is something inherently problematic in allowing those who favour various forms of undemocratic social and political systems to be allowed to voicing their belief.
Not to mention the absurdity of such parties entering into the actual democratic political process.
Whether it’s from the right or the left, I always find it a bit suspect when a party enters the election fold with a political programme that favours violent revolution of one type or another. Always makes me wonder what they’re doing in the process to begin with...
Andrew wrote:
“My friend said, words to the affect of ‘You know we're Jewish, right?’ The KKK guy said, ‘Yeah, but you two are okay.’”
Oh, great! And if THOSE people would only realise that if there are two... maybe there are more. In fact, maybe you cannot judge people by their ethnicity at all? Mindboggling, ain’t it?
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 9
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Not only was Hitler an evil, mad bastard with only one testicle, but he had bad table manners:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article57 55375.ece
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Ernest Voyard
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2007
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 10
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Question to JB:
I noticed on this piece there isn't a complete swastika
in the image. The "cufflink" on the arm holding the
cube comes close, but is still a little blurred. Was
this a conscious decision?
Thanks.
Ernest
(Edited to fix typo- wrote conscience meant conscious )
Edited by Ernest Voyard on 18 February 2009 at 9:31am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 9:21am | IP Logged | 11
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No conscious decision to break up the swastikas. Just worked out that way.
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Bob Simko
Byrne Robotics Security
Negative Mod
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 12
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No, Ari, they most certainly did not just stop believing!
************************************************************ ********
I saw a very interesting program...probably on the History Channel a long time ago that addressed the post-war urban revolt/warfare that was going on against the Aliies after they occupied Germany. Something you don't hear too much about, unlike the regular feeds you see now via the modern media.
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