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Topic: Jim Shooter: The Origin of the Dark Phoenix Saga Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 8:37am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Going back to the two sides (at least) to every story: Mark Waid wasn't sorry to see Bob Harras fired as EiC.
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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 2 post reply



Shooter sure does talk a lot about stories he didn't write. 




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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Shooter sure does talk a lot about stories he didn't write.

••

Sometimes I wonder if he really believes there IS such an animal. When I read his description of how the final chapter of Dark Phoenix came to be, I have to assume he genuinely believes that was what happened. I can't imagine why, with a story that has been so minutely dissected in the fan press in the decades since its publication, he would present something so much at odds with reality if he did not think people would accept his version as gospel.

Fortunately, this is an instance where the truth came out long ago -- mostly because no one was trying to hide it!! -- and Shooter's Orwellian approach thus carries no weight with anyone who bothers to look beyond his version.

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Flavio Sapha
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Star Brand gives an interesting insight into Shooter´s (self-delusional) psychology.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Is it safe to say that Shooter's "people skills" as EIC were lacking and was one of the main problems that a number of people had with him?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I would suggest something of an answer to that question can be found by looking at the people who departed Marvel during his tenure, and returned after he got the boot.
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

"Mark Waid wasn't sorry to see Bob Harras fired as EIC"

Thanks for the link.  The interview is quite a bit longer than this paragraph but talk about not pulling any punches.  If nothing else, Kudo's to Waid for expressing how he really feels.


 QUOTE:

Word has it that you're no longer welcome at Marvel after a statement you made on my Forum about Bob Harras. What's your take on Bob's time at Marvel in your experience?

Yeah, that's at least temporarily true. Apparently, the fact that Bob was fired for unfair and wrong reasons one September rather than for all the tens of hundreds of RIGHT reasons he'd racked up in the seven years PREVIOUS gave a lot of staffers a sudden change of heart. Amazing. Overnight, they forgot what a two-faced, cowardly liar Bob had been and what crap they'd all had to suffer through because of his shortcomings as a manager. Instead, everyone was lighting candles for Bob. Jesus. You want to know the truth? In my humble =koff= opinion, Bob did as much to help destroy the comic book industry during the 1990s than any other single human being alive. Yes, even more than Gareb. I'd even let Ron Perlman out of Hell before I'd pardon Bob. For years and years and years, the editorial philosophy at Marvel was to make each and every comic book as labyrinthine and confusing as creatively possible. Marvel had the single highest-profile comic book in the Western hemisphere--X-MEN--and Bob did everything imaginable to make it completely incomprehensible and inaccessible to new and/or casual readers. Everything.


I would certainly recommend reading the article to anyone who hasn't.  I know nothing of Waid's politics but he seems to be saying what many on this board often feel and express. 

It's pretty disappointing that the guy who wrote Kingdom Come, which I thought portrayed Superman in a very good way, is banned from ever writing Superman.

From an outside point of view, it sure seems like the whole industry is run by jealous, spiteful individuals whose only purpose in life is to make the wrong decisions and do everything they can to screw someone over if they get the opportunity.



Edited by Andy Mokler on 30 June 2011 at 12:02pm
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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

portrayed Superman in a very good way...

A Superman with no spine and no moral compass, who spends most of his time getting henpecked by the bitchiest Wonder Woman in history?

Blechh.

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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Don, there was a resolution to that story you realize right?
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

More importantly, I specifically wrote "which I thought" so as to try and avoid an argument about something subjective. 

I didn't proclaim that Superman was written well by Waid as some kind of fact or truth. 

Heck, considering how old that interview is, I don't even know if the edict stood until now.  Waid might have written Superman for the last 5 years and I'm just unaware of it since I don't buy new comics very often.
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Trevor Smith
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Wow, that Waid interview is Bizarro world for me - I bought
Kingdom Come a few years ago to see what the hype was
about, and was disappointed and confused. I absolutely
*hated* a lot of the character portrayals - like, felt
robbed of the money I spent on it level hated. But I read
that interview and I want to stand up and cheer the guy.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Don Zomberg wrote: "A Superman with no spine and no moral compass, who spends most of his time getting henpecked by the bitchiest Wonder Woman in history?"

Well, the bitchiest before All-Star Batman's at least... :-)

I wonder how much of the over-arching mood and theme of Kingdom Come can be traced to Alex Ross? Not to write Mark Waid any sort of free pass for his work on the series, but Ross was also involved in the almost-oppressively dark "Earth X" and "Uncle Sam" mini-series as well. Both of those also feature central characters who ought to have a moral compass, but are nevertheless floundering and lost. "Earth X" spends it's first five issues, as I recall, debunking the concept of heroism altogether, while "Uncle Sam" gives the Alan Moore walk-on character from "Twilight" center stage to gibber about America's failings and collapse under their collective weight.

The postings from Jim Shooter on his blog do seem to underscore a point made by Joss Whedon amongst others; That no one truly sees himself as a villain or as a secondary character. The third gunman to the villain's right in the western movie really thinks the scene is all about him.

 

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