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Topic: Jim Shooter: The Origin of the Dark Phoenix Saga Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Regarding Waid's expulsion from the world of Superman:

The interview was conducted in 2000. Waid's take on Superman's origin, "Birthright" was published in 2003.

Apparently, he was not forever barred from crossing Jordan into the Promised Land.

 

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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 30 June 2011 at 9:19pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Seems like Waid's ire was focusing on Harras' misdeeds in the early-mid 90's, not the late-90's apparent attempts at redemption. Which is his right, I suppose. Though I wonder how Waid feels about DC now that Harras' is once again EIC?

Edited by Vinny Valenti on 30 June 2011 at 9:19pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 July 2011 at 4:11am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The postings from Jim Shooter on his blog do seem to underscore a point made by Joss Whedon amongst others; That no one truly sees himself as a villain or as a secondary character. The third gunman to the villain's right in the western movie really thinks the scene is all about him.

••

Quite possibly the best description of the whole thing I have ever read!

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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 01 July 2011 at 7:13am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Don, there was a resolution to that story

That's a bit like trudging your way through miles of hostile jungle only to find an abandoned gas station at the end.

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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 01 July 2011 at 10:21am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I was checking around Jim Shooter's blog to read some earlier entries and I came across a post where he recounts how the first "Secret Wars" mini-series came to be. In it, Shooter explains why he decided he was the best choice to write the series and offered the following tale as an example:

 Jim Shooter wrote:

...Marvel’s writers at the time, some of the best in the business, were, to a person, very possessive about the characters they were writing. To some extent, that was a good thing, indicating a love for the characters that generally showed in their work. It also led to some intense rivalries and bitter arguments regarding crossovers and guest appearances.

For instance, once, writer “A,” who shall remain nameless, wanted Doctor Doom to “guest-villain” in the series he wrote. I okayed it, over the snarling objections of writer “B,” who wrote the series in which Doom usually appeared. I would not allow the Marvel Universe to be divided into fiefdoms. But then, writer “B” wrote a story “proving” that the Doom seen in writer “A’s” series was a robot, the intimation being that the real Doctor Doom wouldn’t behave so stupidly. Somehow, writer “B’s” editor didn’t realize what he was up to, and let it slip past. Writer “A” was furious…etc.

Allowing any one of the writers to handle pretty much everyone else’s characters in Secret Wars, contemplated to be the biggest, most continuity-intensive crossover ever done, would have led to bloodshed in the hallowed halls...

The story about Chris Claremont using Doctor Doom in "Uncanny X-Men" and JB being unhappy with how Doctor Doom was written in that story is pretty well known to fans, so I am surprized that Jim Shooter chooses not to name names.

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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 01 July 2011 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Plausible deniability Matt. He knew full well everyone would know exactly who he was talking about...but this let him say "who, me? I didn't name any names!"

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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 July 2011 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

For instance, once, writer “A,” who shall remain nameless, wanted Doctor Doom to “guest-villain” in the series he wrote. I okayed it, over the snarling objections of writer “B,” who wrote the series in which Doom usually appeared.

•••

As "Writer B" I can tell you this absolutely did not happen. Shooter was not the one who controlled the guest appearances -- that was solely the job of the editors involved. So, having Doom appear in UNCANNY came down to an agreement between whoever was then editor of the X-Book, and whoever was then editor of FANTASTIC FOUR.

Shooter's role in "authorizing" guest shots took more often the form of what happened with the Disco Dazzler, where he ordered Chris and me to expand our two part Kitty Pryde intro to force in another introduction -- of a character we'd had no part in creating, and really wanted as little to do with as possible.

This, of course, reached its greatest extreme with the Beyonder, who was forced into stories without any consideration of what the original authors had planned.

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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 01 July 2011 at 1:21pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

JB: This, of course, reached its greatest extreme with the Beyonder, who was
forced into stories without any consideration of what the original authors
had planned.

***

Resulting in personal best work from every single editor/writer/artist
working at the time, right? I mean, improving Marvel's comic books was the
only goal, right?

Who could have predicted such an edict would lead to limp, forced story
beats appearing in every single comic across the Marvel line?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 July 2011 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

It should be remembered, too, that (as noted) my complaints about Doom's appearance in UNCANNY X-MEN came after the fact, when I saw how Chris had written the character (Arcade striking a match on his armor). I had no problem beforehand. In fact, as many of you probably know, I had long been an advocate of "sharing the wealth" by having villains cross-pollinate to other books. This, I maintained, would help reduce the effect that usually kicked in with a villain's third or forth appearance, where his whole reason for existing became the destruction of the star(s) of one particular title.

This would also, in theory, cut down on the creation of lame and redundant characters.

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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 01 July 2011 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

 JB wrote:
I had no problem beforehand. In fact, as many of you probably know, I had long been an advocate of "sharing the wealth" by having villains cross-pollinate to other books.


Acts of Vengeance ran with that idea, and I really liked seeing how heroes and villains who had never crossed paths before dealt with each other.  Probably one of my favorite "Crossovers" because of that.
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William T. Byrd
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Posted: 01 July 2011 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Shooter's role in "authorizing" guest shots took more often the form of what happened with the Disco Dazzler, where he ordered Chris and me to expand our two part Kitty Pryde intro to force in another introduction -- of a character we'd had no part in creating, and really wanted as little to do with as possible.

Since X-Men hadn't started really taking off in sales yet, I wonder why Shooter didn't want Dazzler's debut to take place in another, better- selling title like Amazing Spider-Man.  Was it just because she was a mutant?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 July 2011 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

X-MEN didn't have the sales, but it WAS the book people were talking about.
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