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John Cole
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 March 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 522
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| Posted: 19 March 2025 at 4:53pm | IP Logged | 1
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I Always thought originally Phoenix was nothing more than Marvel Girl with her powers amplified by cosmic rays.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135241
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| Posted: 19 March 2025 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | 2
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That was the original plan.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13048
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| Posted: 19 March 2025 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | 3
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The only reason that this story had, for me as a reader when #137 came out, a genuine impact is that I truly believed Jean Grey was dead. Before it was even hinted that she might not be, it was being ruined. A mere ten issues later: Rogue Storm. We did it before...!
Something rare and precious instantly made ordinary and cheap. |
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16661
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| Posted: 19 March 2025 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 4
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Michael Penn: "...A mere ten issues later: Rogue Storm. We did it before...!"
And not long after that was THIS, which featured a Dark Phoenix parody!
And about a few issues after that... THIS!
And then THIS cross-over with Dark Phoenix!
And then we return to the main title for THIS!
And then another cross-over that alludes to Dark Phoenix HERE!
Well... Phoenix lived up to her codename in that she kept rising from the grave over and over again, in various forms. It's hard to miss someone when they never go away.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8309
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| Posted: 19 March 2025 at 9:52pm | IP Logged | 5
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It was such a weird thing. Dead but turning up every few months.
Never let go.
Some I really liked - the crossover for example, some I just did not.
Once X-Factor arrived, and Rachel was around for real, there was nowhere
to go.
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Jean Voulis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 February 2025
Location: Canada
Posts: 113
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| Posted: 19 March 2025 at 11:48pm | IP Logged | 6
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I like consistency rather than strict continuity.
And even that I am forgiving as long as it is a good story - I figure some of these tales are 'oral histories' and the details change over the years and based on who is telling them - but the core is always there.
Was Tony Stark in Vietnam? Or Sin-Cong? Or Afghanistan? It does not matter to me - just a war zone.
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Jean Voulis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 February 2025
Location: Canada
Posts: 113
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| Posted: 19 March 2025 at 11:50pm | IP Logged | 7
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And in retrospect now it is clear that Claremont could not let Jean go - Maddy Pryor is now clearly a stand in for depowered Jean who can live out his original plans...plus Rachel..then Jean returns (and Claremont hints that she was always Phoenix - screwing up the resurrection story just told in Avengers and FF)...what a mess by the time X-Factor is around it becomes a cheap convoluted soap opera.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: 20 March 2025 at 3:22am | IP Logged | 8
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Even though resurrecting Jean Grey was terrible in many ways, at least it put a stop to the utter creepiness of Scott marrying someone who looked exactly like his dead lover, which Claremont unconvincingly tried to characterize as something healthy. The Mister Sinister clone stuff made way more sense than the idea any sane woman would marry a man under such circumstances.
Edited by David Miller on 20 March 2025 at 3:36am
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8351
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| Posted: 21 March 2025 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 9
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Interesting point. In a meta moment, Claremont had Carol Danvers blasting the Avengers for letting her waltz away with the son of Immortus that she gave birth to (admittedly a horrible story in AVENGERS#200).
But in his own book, he created a woman that somehow accepts a man wanting to marry her despite the fact that she is supposedly(*) a dead ringer for his dead fiancé, and not because of it, and within just a couple of months of meeting her, to boot. He really rushed the whole thing (7 issues between meeting and marriage, versus the 100+ issues of courtship with Jean), which made it even more creepy. I started reading comics right in the middle of this, and even 10 year old me didn't quite get why they were acting like this.
*I agree that Paul Smith's Madelyne looked nothing like Jean, so I was confused by the whole thing as well.
Edited by Vinny Valenti on 21 March 2025 at 12:38pm
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13048
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| Posted: 21 March 2025 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 10
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It's astonishing the chaotic explosion that followed JB's departure from THE X-MEN. The original team retained their core and core continuity and core concept for seven years. Pretty much the same with the all-new team. Once he left, though...
John Byrne could rightly declare: après moi, le déluge!
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7049
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| Posted: 21 March 2025 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 11
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"L'équipe, c'est moi."
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135241
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| Posted: 21 March 2025 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 12
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I agree that Paul Smith's Madelyne looked nothing like Jean, so I was confused by the whole thing as well.••• Much as I admire Smitty’s skills as an artist, he is firmly in the “this is how I do it” camp.
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