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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135264
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| Posted: 26 June 2011 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | 1
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It does make me wonder how the book did in the alternate reality where Len Wein never left. From Giant-Size #1, I suspect he would have gone for a less offbeat approach.•• Never read SWAMP THING?
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16661
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| Posted: 26 June 2011 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 2
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More quotes from Shooter:
Jim Shooter wrote:
...The good thing about anarchy, or freedom, if you wish, is that a few, brilliant creators will rise to the opportunity and do wonderful things. Them, I LEFT ALONE. I wasn’t editing to make things my way, or to stifle anyone, or to interfere in any way with talented people doing outstanding work. Lord knows, when I read a script that didn’t need a mark put on it, I was thrilled. More sleep that night.
I can’t think of a single time when I asked for changes because of style, personal preferences or artistic philosophy.
I worried only about mistakes, problems, crass stupidities, etc.
Please get that straight. This wasn’t about me oppressing the best and brightest creators. It was about me wanting incomprehensible art, writing devoid of discoverable meaning, story glitches, continuity mistakes, character misrepresentations, spelling errors and slovenly work fixed...
...Like many hated me. The anarchy-ender is never popular with the anarchists. And the outstanding creators who did brilliant things never really noticed that I did nothing except stay out of their way.
Whatever.
To me, the comics were the important things. Damn the torpedoes... |
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I would say that JB and Chris Claremont were definitely among Marvel's "outstanding creators," and yet we all know that Shooter did not stay out of their way.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135264
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| Posted: 26 June 2011 at 6:33pm | IP Logged | 3
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I would say that JB and Chris Claremont were definitely among Marvel's "outstanding creators," and yet we all know that Shooter did not stay out of their way.•• In reality, the more popular a title became, the more interference that could be expected from Shooter. DAREDEVIL is a prime example, under Frank Miller's tenure.
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Jonathan Stover
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Posts: 749
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| Posted: 26 June 2011 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | 4
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The Kulan Gath two-parter by Claremont and JRJR is a weird one in part because unless Marvel reacquires the rights to Red Sonja, the Spider-man/Red Sonja team-up Kulan Gath first appeared in can't be reprinted. It's in Comic Book Limbo with the Doc Savage/Spider-man and Doc Savage/Thing team-ups...and The Shadow meeting a young Bruce Wayne, for that matter. I think Heidi McDonald nailed the problems of later 1980's Claremont in a Comics Journal article at the time which pointed out how increasingly often characters were getting maimed and killed and then reset-buttoned back to normal. The Kulan Gath story is pretty much a perfect example of this, as Claremont even gets to come up with grotesque hybrids like the Xavier/Caliban thing, all while also crucifying Spider-man in, um, excruciating detail. Whee! And then it never happened. Until it happened again. Cheers, Jon
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Michael Todd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 4114
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| Posted: 26 June 2011 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 5
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QUOTE:
| It does make me wonder how the book did in the alternate reality where Len Wein never left. From Giant-Size #1,. |
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I'd rather read the issues from the Earth where Roy Thomas and Neal Adams stayed on the book until JB took over the writing and art in 1975.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 26 June 2011 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | 6
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I'd rather read the issues from the Earth where Roy Thomas and Neal Adams stayed on the book until JB took over the writing and art in 1975.•• Oh, sure! Following Dave Cockrum wasn't enough pressure! You want me to actually have a stroke!!!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 26 June 2011 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 7
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…the problems of later 1980's Claremont…•• He'd tried to do it while I was still on the book, but I had resisted -- and that was taking X-MEN further and further away from being a "specialist" book. This was the time when "mutant" became a pretty much meaningless term in the Marvel Universe.
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Sam Karns
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: 26 June 2011 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | 8
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X-MEN got off on entirely the wrong foot, and it has been downhill at an ever increasing speed since then. ***
This is what I've thought since the year 2000, but for many here in this forum thinks it's X-Men The Last Stand was THE one film that tarnished the X-Men lore, but never speaks badly about the first two done by Bryan Singer!
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Paul Simpson Simpson
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Joined: 07 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 939
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| Posted: 26 June 2011 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 9
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X-MEN got off on entirely the wrong foot, and it has been downhill at an ever increasing speed since then. ****************** For me it REALLY went off track around #200 when Magneto was reformed and joined the X-Men. After that it was just hard to read.
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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
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| Posted: 26 June 2011 at 10:59pm | IP Logged | 10
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Here's the million dollar question for JB and the board. Who do you guys think was a better EIC, Quesada or Shooter? My vote is for Shooter.
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Bill Catellier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 September 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 3225
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| Posted: 26 June 2011 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | 11
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I know I enjoyed many Marvel titles while Shooter was there and barely read any Marvel now under Quesada. Using that, I'm going with Shooter.
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Brad Hague
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Joined: 19 December 2006
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| Posted: 27 June 2011 at 12:41am | IP Logged | 12
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I was going to say Scilla and Caribdes, but it is true: I read a lot of Marvel books under Shooter and none now under Quesada. I really liked things when Stan and Archie were EIC too.
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