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Stuart Vandal
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Joined: 02 July 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 143
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| Posted: 01 March 2012 at 10:44pm | IP Logged | 1
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"I call them the Malvinas because that is the name the Argentines call them. I don't like colonial powers"
The Argentinians use of Malvinas is part of their insistence that they own the islands, and never mind what the people live there want. So using that name is supporting that opinion, despite it being very much a colonial attitude.
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Emery Calame
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5773
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 2
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It's nice to want things. But the Falklands belong to the UK.
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Neil Lindholm
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Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | 3
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Brennan, it seems that you support the Argentinian claim to the islands. So I will ask again, what should the Argentinians do with the people currently living there that do not want to join Argentina? Deport them, arrest them or just shoot them? I can't think of any other conclusion if the locals decide to protest such an invasion.
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 4
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I am afraid there is not much for me to elaborate. I call them the Malvinas because that is the name the Argentines call them. ------------------------------------------------------------ -------- The Malvinas is Spanish colonial name derived from a French colonial name. And the people who live there call them the Falkland Islands. Your point is?
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Pedro Bouça
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Location: Portugal
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | 5
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You guys know that the country you call Germany (and we call Alemanha) is actually called Deutschland, don't you?
Different languages may have different names for the same place based on cultural roots...
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Stuart Vandal
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Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 143
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | 6
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Yes, but the difference here is that us calling Deutschland Germany is not an attempt to claim ownership of it from the locals. And, while you are quite right to say that different languages have different names for the same place based on cultural roots, if the Germans turned round and told us they disliked the name and didn't want us to use it, we'd accept their right to choose what they are called and modify our language. Again, it comes down to recognising the rights of the people who live there, and accepting their choices in the matter. We don't call Sri Lanka by the old name of Ceylon any more, or Zimbabwe by Rhodesia. The Falkland Islanders actively reject the Malvinas name.
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Brennan Voboril
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Joined: 15 January 2011
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| Posted: 02 March 2012 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | 7
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I'm sorry guys but I support Argentina in this matter and hope it can be settled peacefully.
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Neil Lindholm
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Joined: 12 January 2005
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 12:06am | IP Logged | 8
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Okay, I am going to try just one more time. Brennan, see my post above.
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Stuart Vandal
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Joined: 02 July 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 143
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 9
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"I'm sorry guys but I support Argentina in this matter"
Why? We've given our reasons why we support the Falkland Islanders' claim to the islands (note - not Britain, but the people who live on the Islands). What makes you feel the Argentinians' stance on who owns the islands supercedes that of the people who have lived there for generations?
"and hope it can be settled peacefully."
It is settled peacefully at the moment.
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Lars Johansson
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 8:21am | IP Logged | 10
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When the war was I was very little so I got it wrong, I got it like Britain had a colony that they wanted to keep and then it was a takeover attempt by locals. Now I have read this thread and from what I have read here I feel that I want to even more support Britain and Thatcher. I have listened to some Youtube clips where Thatcher speaks also.
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Brennan Voboril
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 11
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Hi guys,
Sorry but I don't see any need to get into a debate about it. I stand with the Argentine claims regarding the Malvinas and am confident their negotiating stance will prevail.
Thanks to the web we can all read the Argentine government's claims. Among other things, Argentina claims the original inhabitants were expelled at the point of a gun in the early 1800s.
I was amused with the Roger Waters YouTube video and agree with his views as well. I found them refreshing.
One thing is certain: we won't settle the matter here.
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Stuart Vandal
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 12
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"I don't see any need to get into a debate about it."
Everyone else is willing to put forward valid arguments, ones that don't rely on going back nearly two centuries and quoting contradictory historical accounts that can never be fully resolved thanks to incomplete records of the day, but instead which rely on the current rights of a place's inhabitants for self-determination. You don't, because the Argentine stance is indefencible when it comes to that respect.
"I...am confident their negotiating stance will prevail."
Their "negotiating" stance seems to be to try and cut the islanders off from the outside world. Which is, at least, a step up from their "negotiating" stance in the 1980s, which was to take the place at gunpoint.
"Among other things, Argentina claims the original inhabitants were expelled at the point of a gun in the early 1800s."
What "original inhabitants"? Argentina says the locals aren't natives because the islands were uninhabited before Europeans settled there. If you mean the Argentine garrison that British forces forced to leave in 1834, then I could bring up Spain using force in 1770 to expel the British settlement that was there. And we could keep going back and forth citing historical claims that try to prove one side had a legitimate claim before the others, which go right back to Spain feeling they had a right to any islands in the region because the Pope arbitrarily split the New World in half and said France could have half and Spain the other.
Ultimately though, as always, this isn't about historical claims. Britain laid claim to Australia a long time ago - we don't own it now, because the Australians chose otherwise. Much of the United States was, arguably, stolen from native inhabitants by various European countries and latterly by the US itself - but practicality says that we cannot make up for the transgressions of past generations by trying to turn back the clock hundreds of years.
Self-determination is key here. If the vast majority of the population of part of a country want to be separate from that country and go it alone or forge ties with another, they have the right to do so. You can debate it and try to convince them otherwise, but once the mandate has been given, coercion or force to keep them under your rule is not an option. If the Falklands were handed over to Argentina tomorrow, they'd be demanding their independence the very same second. The only way to stop them would be to deny them their rights, either claiming they were not citizens and so denying them a right to vote on the matter, or forcibly deporting them.
Edited by Stuart Vandal on 03 March 2012 at 2:11pm
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Topic Closed)
