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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11439
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 1
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As for Roger Waters,as i said before,he has expensive concert tickets to sell,it was unfortunate that in trying to suck up to Chile by backing the Argentinian`s,that he didn`t do his research and discover that Chile is not exactly supportive of Argentina.Now i read that Morrisey has come out in support of the Argies,that`s all they need!
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Brennan Voboril
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Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1735
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 4:08pm | IP Logged | 2
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Bill I can't see Waters saying that to sell tickets or sucking up. Maybe he just feels that way?
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Stuart Vandal
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 143
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 3
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He's hardly the first "celebrity" to voice an opinion without having a clue what he's talking about. And it doesn't make that opinion any more valid because he's a "name."
For the umpteenth time - his opinion doesn't count. Your opinion doesn't count. My opinion doesn't count. Every single person in Britain and Argentina? Their opinions don't count. We can voice our opinions, bit they don't count.
The ONLY opinions that count in this debate are the people who live on the Falklands. Most of us here seem to understand and respect that. What I'm curious to know is, why do you not respect their wishes? How can you justify that?
Edited by Stuart Vandal on 03 March 2012 at 4:19pm
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12185
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
| One thing is certain: we won't settle the matter here. |
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True, nor did I expect it to be settled here. Getting into the history of any nation is tricky. As I've said before, I don't believe people can be held responsible for the actions of their ancestors. Each country's history is different, but if someone started saying that the US should give back land it has would be viewed as absurd (it would be impactical and immoral, anyway). What if Spain wanted it's former colonies back? Bangladesh was once part of Pakistan, what if there were some arguing for that to happen again? No nation has a perfect record on human rights. We can't be held responsible for what has happened, we can only strive to do right in the future. My friend in the Falklands is a sixth-generation islander. We communicate via e-mail regularly - she tells me that the islanders want to remain part of a self-governing British overseas territory. That's the view and Argentina will have to respect that.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4945
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 9:08pm | IP Logged | 5
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I think a lot of celebrities will simply support the opposing viewpoint in order to get more press and attention. I don't know much about Morrissey but would his fans be happy if he sided with the UK governing positions?
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Brennan Voboril
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| Posted: 05 March 2012 at 1:00am | IP Logged | 6
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Hi Neil,
I don't know Morrissey much either. I did note he made some radical statements on meat.
I look at it this way: celebrities are the same as the rest of us in that they have opinions. I treat them the same way. Many times I don't want to know celebrities political views.
I am sure there are those in the UK that support the Argentine government's view and I am sure there are Argentines who support the British government view.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4945
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| Posted: 05 March 2012 at 1:56am | IP Logged | 7
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The difference is that people that support the Argentinian view still don't talk about the fundamental problem. What about the people currently living there? What happens to them?
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Brennan Voboril
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Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1735
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| Posted: 05 March 2012 at 2:08pm | IP Logged | 8
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Neil I assume the same thing that happened to the inhabitants of Hong Kong when China regained its sovereignty over her territory would happen to those presently living on the Malvinas. In other words, life would go on.
I am not sure if those supporting the Argentine position are a group with a monolithic view.
I was amused at Cameron suggesting Argentina had colonial aspirations. I've never heard of the Argentine Empire.
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Mike Norris
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 05 March 2012 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 9
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That's why they're aspirations.
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 05 March 2012 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 10
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"I was amused at Cameron suggesting Argentina had colonial aspirations. I've never heard of the Argentine Empire" ------------------------------------------------------------ -------- This was about 6 weeks ago, and Cameron's exact words were, "What the Argentinians have been saying recently, I would argue, is actually far more like colonialism because these people want to remain British and the Argentinians want them to do something else."
Rather than Cameron dredging up the issue of colonialism out of nowhere, this does follow comments last year from the Argentinian president where she said that the British "continue to be a crude colonial power in decline" -- and he (rightly in my opinion) is pointing out that the idea of wanting to bend the nationality of an island's people against their will is a colonial attitude. Your facetious comment about the lack of an Argentinian empire doesn't mean that they can't be displaying an colonial attitude to the Falklanders.
30 years ago, as their country's economy plummeted, the Argentinian government tried to take the Falklands by force.
They were not allowed to do that.
Now on the anniversary, they are rattling the sabres again, and despite a clear majority of islanders wanting to stay as part of Britain, we are supposed to do what? Say, well you tried to take this island forcibly before, but now that you are calling us stupid and mediocre we'll ignore the wishes of the people there and just hand them over to you?
Edited by Peter Martin on 05 March 2012 at 3:35pm
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Stuart Vandal
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Joined: 02 July 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 143
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| Posted: 05 March 2012 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | 11
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You are still avoiding the question that so many of us have put to you Brennan - why do the viewpoints of the people who live there not seem to count to you?
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Neil Lindholm
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Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
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| Posted: 05 March 2012 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | 12
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Hong Kong is a completely different situation. Hong Kong has always belonged to China. The UK leased it for 99 years on the understanding that it would be turned over to China, which it was. The people living there knew it and accepted it, for the most part. As well, China has promised no interference for at least 50 years, which they more or less have done. There is a very nasty border between China and Hong Kong, keeping the mainland Chinese out (for some strange reason, people don't usually sneak into China) and they are pretty much separate. This is not what Argentina has in mind for the Falklands.
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