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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5833
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 1
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I liked the Jim Gordon in YEAR ONE though I'm not sure how old he's supposed to be. I could see him as mid-to-late 40s but his wife appears much younger. If Miller meant to play him as late 30s/early 40s, I still don't think that gets you to a Gordon who is a contemporary of Thomas Wayne, as traditionally played.
However, I'm not opposed to a younger Gordon -- one who is a lt. or captain at most. Do police commissioners work as hands-on as Gordon is often depicted? It's a similar question I had for Harvey Dent. On TV and film, "D.A" is often used as short-hand for "Assistant District Attorney" and not the actual elected official, who doesn't directly prosecute cases anyway. Given Dent's youth and career, it always made sense to me that he was an A.D.A and not a D.A.
Unfortunately, the "younger Gordon" concept was adopted in the Nolan films and (probably as a direct result) in the new52. It makes little sense in either -- the younger Gordon is still the father of an adult daughter in the comics. And Bruce Wayne has to be close to 40 in "Dark Knight Rises" and refers to the consoling actions of a beat cop Gordon when he was no older than 10. The Nolan Gordon should be close to 60 in DKR but still is played like the YEAR ONE character.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134808
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 10:18am | IP Logged | 2
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I'm not opposed to a younger Gordon -- one who is a lt. or captain at most.•• I think he was a Lieutenant -- certainly not Commissioner of Police BEFORE Batman showed up, as he was in the very first story. Imagine the furor if I'd had Perry White close to Clark's age and a reporter, not EiC!
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Nathan Greno
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Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 3
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Rick: My theory is that the vocal elitist older comic book fans and comic book reviewers saw Miller's comic book work as being "KEWL","edgy",and "mature" and therefore ignored and/or excused any mistakes or revisions/retcons that he made to Batman's history. Like Alan Moore, those same elitist comic fans and reviewers held Miller and his work up as some kind of ambassador to those adults who do not read comics. Those same elitist older fans viewed your work as being more traditional and more all ages appropriate and therefore saw your work on Superman as not being "KEWL" or "mature" enough to get new adult non comic book readers to start reading comics. They felt that this gave them a pass to over scrutinize and complain about your work on Superman.
---
I hear what you're saying, Rick.
When I was a kid, Year One and DKR did feel very edgy! MoS is one of the best "All-Ages" series I have ever read, but Year One & DKR felt very "adult"... wasn't a lot of that back then. Miller's stuff felt very fresh at the time... it had a cool, rebellious feel to it.
Now everything is dark and I can't seem to find enough FUN comics!
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5833
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 4
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Nathan -- I agree. However, it wasn't until I read the Miller DAREDEVIL run (especially BORN AGAIN, which David M. drew) that I realized how much it had inspired Miller's YEAR ONE. Someone commented once that DARK KNIGHT RETURNS was more "operatic" -- with superheroes and supervillains -- and thus closer to the Silver Age Batman than the more "noirish" YEAR ONE.
The other interesting bit is that at the time, I recall some fans complaining that JB was "Marvelizing" Superman, when in fact, JB's Superman work is distinctly different in feel than his MARVEL work (by that, I mean it "feels" like a DC comic but in the best way possible).
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134808
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 5
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The other interesting bit is that at the time, I recall some fans complaining that JB was "Marvelizing" Superman, when in fact, JB's Superman work is distinctly different in feel than his MARVEL work (by that, I mean it "feels" like a DC comic but in the best way possible).•• Walt Simonson, in fact, busted my chops a wee bit for NOT bringing enough of my Marvel sensibilities to the Superman assignment!
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2248
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 6
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Or we could be talking about really DUMB fans. After all, as noted, MAN OF STEEL was ANNOUNCED as a "reboot", while DKR/YEAR ONE were not.
___________________________
That's another possibility. Over the last 20+ years I have noticed how many fans miss the most obvious things in comics. Even worse, this type of ignorance is not limited to just fans, but is also very common in fans turned pro.
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Greg Kirkman
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Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15772
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 7
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The other interesting bit is that at the time, I recall some fans complaining that JB was "Marvelizing" Superman, when in fact, JB's Superman work is distinctly different in feel than his MARVEL work (by that, I mean it "feels" like a DC comic but in the best way possible). ++++++++++++ Something brilliant I heard a while back during a Podcast discussion on MOS-- MOS # 1 essentially features a DC version of Marvel's "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" bit. Clark is using his powers to be a football star in Smallville. Then, he and Pa Kent have The Talk, and Clark goes out into the world to use his powers for good. And that's all it takes. So, the difference between this story and a truly "Marvelized" Superman origin is that Clark does not need to learn the bitter lesson that Peter Parker did. After a small nudge in the right direction, he simply goes off and starts doing the right thing. Because he's SUPERMAN! Many of DC's classic characters are innately heroic (Clark Kent, Hal Jordan, etc.), whereas Marvel's classic characters are a bit more rooted in realistic motives (but are no less heroic, once they get to where they're going, as in the case of Spider-Man).
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5833
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | 8
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Right, Greg. Clark is doing nothing sinister by using his natural abilities
to the fullest... It's just that he can do much more with them. It's
decidedly un-Randian, you could say.
Peter Parker, conversely, is being an ass. He's too good to be bothered
to help. And here's where I repeat an off-made point: Peter is a *kid*,
which makes this lapse forgivable. Too often this lesson is applied to
adults and it fails because an adult, especially a hero, should know
better.
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Flavio Sapha
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Brazil
Posts: 12912
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 9
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NOT bringing enough of my Marvel sensibilities to the Superman assignment!
+++
Simonson is my hero!
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Terence Dollard
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Joined: 11 July 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 24
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 10
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Honestly, this was my favorite time as a comics fan. MOS and the JB years are still the Superman I think of. Speaking of reboots, I think DC got it right with the Justice League. It fit in well with the new DCU and was a great read. Didn't it start in Legends, with a big JB contribution?
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David Plunkert
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Joined: 03 July 2012
Posts: 536
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | 11
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I love the art by Mazzucchelli in year one.. Am I alone in seeing a Morisi influence?
Edited by David Plunkert on 18 October 2012 at 9:17pm
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Charles Valderrama
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| Posted: 22 October 2012 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 12
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I think DC got it right with the Justice League. It fit in well with the new DCU and was a great read. Didn't it start in Legends, with a big JB contribution?
Hmmm, i think JUSTICE LEAGUE was a fun read after LEGENDS, but not the team i was looking to see. They should always consist of the BIG SEVEN... doesn't make sense otherwise. They're supposed to be the world's greatest super heroes after all.
-C!
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