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Topic: A Thought Experiment on the Shakespeare Authorship Question Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 01 May 2025 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Dates can feel abstract — but our shared memory of the 1990s through today is vivid. So here’s a thought experiment to make the Shakespeare timeline more relatable:

Imagine Richard Bachman’s Thinner was published in 1993 — a bestselling novel by a mysterious author with no interviews, no bio, no public presence. Just a name on the cover.

By 1997, a few writers begin dropping hints in print that “Bachman” might be a pen name — possibly for a more famous author. Then, nothing else for decades.

Now flash forward to 2023. Thinner is reissued, and for the first time, the edition includes biographical material on Bachman.

But that material is... strange.

One foreword calls him the “Swan of Mississippi.” Another mentions a monument in "Springfield." One is written by two booksellers who knew a guy named Buckman who worked briefly in New York publishing. They say nothing about his personal life, yet insist he wrote Thinner in one perfect draft, no revisions.

Then comes a foreword by the famously cryptic Thomas Pynchon. He refuses to praise the name on the title page, tells readers to ignore the author's portrait, and offers not a single shred of identifying information.

So someone goes digging and finds a man named Buckman in Springfield, Mississippi. He once worked in New York publishing, may have gone to school there briefly as a child, and knew the two booksellers. No one in his hometown ever heard he was a writer.

Would we confidently conclude that this man — Buckman from Springfield — wrote Thinner?

Or would we assume, as some already did in 1997, that “Bachman” was a pseudonym, and that some deeper unraveling is needed to explain how the 2023 edition ended up linked to this otherwise unknown man?

That is exactly how “Shaksper” of Stratford was connected to the works of Shakespeare.

The name first appeared in print in 1593. But not one single biographical connection between the man from Stratford and the act of writing plays appears until the 1623 First Folio — thirty years later — in a pair of forewords written by that era’s Thomas Pynchon, the legendary riddle-speaker Ben Jonson.

Earlier allusions to “Shakespeare,” dating back to 1597, clearly treat it as a pseudonym.

And yet, on this flimsy and delayed foundation, the entire Stratford authorship myth has been built.

Edited by Mark Haslett on 01 May 2025 at 2:36pm
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 01 May 2025 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

And just for some added modern context, we should remember that the artist known as BANKSY has been putting on art shows since the 1990's and we still do not know who he/she is in 2025.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 May 2025 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

A small twist to your hypothesis: it was likely not the author himself who chose the name “Shakespeare”. That probably came from the publisher/printer, who was seeking to hang a recognizable “brand” on those popular plays and poems.
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 01 May 2025 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

There're as big a problem with the reasons to not identify the author to the actor (at least the reasons of those who in the XIXth century made that choice, but those who make it today are their heirs, even if the reasons differ) than there're with the reasons to go with the tradition.

Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 01 May 2025 at 3:17pm
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 01 May 2025 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Stephane: There're as big a problem with the reasons to not identify the author to the actor (at least the reasons of those who in the XIXth century made that choice, but those who make it today are their heirs, even if the reasons differ) than there're with the reasons to go with the tradition.

**

Since there is not even strong evidence that the man from Stratford was ever an actor, I strongly disagree with your statement.

Particularly when you do not even hint at what the "problem" you refer to could be.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 01 May 2025 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

John: A small twist to your hypothesis: it was likely not the author himself who chose the name “Shakespeare”. That probably came from the publisher/printer, who was seeking to hang a recognizable “brand” on those popular plays and poems.

**

Interesting thought.

The first place the name "William Shakespeare" appears in print is on the first printing of "Venus & Adonis" -- on the dedication page.

The name was on the 1593 first printing. At the time, it was the only thing anyone knew of from this "William Shakespeare" guy.

The name would not get connected to any plays until 5 years later in 1598.

"Venus & Adonis" is by far the most popular work of its day with the name "Shaksespeare" on it. Nothing else in publishing from the time comes close.

If "Shakespeare" did become a "brand name", then it is because "Venus & Adonis" was so successful.

I agree, it happened. "Shakespeare" became a brand under which work from several authors was released -- the "apocryphal" plays prove it. But I think the author of "Venus & Adonis" chose that name, for whatever reason, to appear on the poem's dedication page.

Edited by Mark Haslett on 01 May 2025 at 4:31pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 May 2025 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

The plays and poems were known and popular before the Shakespeare name attached. This is what I mean by the printers creating a brand. “Ask for it by name!”

And as we know, some of the later works—notably KING JOHN—are considered something other than “pure” Shakespeare.

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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 01 May 2025 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

My reference on the subject is a french book: 
Shakespeare, by Henri Suhamy, 1996, Le Livre de poche, ISBN: 2-253-90523-2 
I have the second edition, from 2006
9th part of the second chapter "The man, the actor, the author"(my translation, as for all that follows in this summary) is titled "9.The anti-stratfordian heresy" pages 41 to 47.

It presents the anti-stratfordians as appearing in the XIXth century and affirming that the works attributed to an illiterate peasant named William Shakspere or Shaxper, were writen by someone who needed to hide his real identity and that the peasant of the Warwickshire was only a figurhead, sort of a reverse ghost writer. 

He treats rapidly the Bernard Shaw joke and the question of the homonym, then, after a few words about the premises at the end of the XVIIIth century (humble countryman without university studies vs such a bright work) he proceeds to the examen of the various candidates.

Francis Bacon, Lord Verulam (1561-1626): genius+erudit but an hypothesis discredited today because of the absurdity of some theories (clandestine son of Elisabeth and the earl of Leicester, plays writen to defend his right to the throne...)

William Stanley (1561-1642), earl of Derby, more or less a speciality of the french anti-stratfordians like Abel Lefranc and Georges Lambin. Same objections as the other hypotheses: no proof, no likelyhood. And how to keep the secret?
Particularly if Shakespeare was such a boor? Why would the real author choose someone for his incompetence?
 
Edward de Vere (1550-1604), earl of Oxford, today's candidate of most of the active anti-stratfordians, particularly in America.

Against the oxfordian hypothesis: his death in 1604 since some of the plays were represented for the first time after this date. Why did his familly and friends let the Stratford crook draw from an hypothetical stock of chefs-d'oeuvre? basically the tactic of the oxfordians is an argmentative spyral, with hypothesis justified by other hypothesis.

For the oxfordian hypothesis: his stepfather was William Cecil, Lord Burghley, minister of Elisabeth and probable model for Polonius in Hamlet. A letter to his son looks like the recommendations of Polonius to Laertes. How could Shakespeare know this document?
But this could also be the source for Stanley who was the husband of Elisabeth de Vere, grand-daughter of William Cecil.

Henry Suhamy summaries the position of the anti-stratfordians as "A great lord shouldn't write for the theater, ergo the plays of Shakespeare were writen by a great lord."
Other pseudo-syllogism: if we don't find any testimony proving that Oxford wrote the plays in question, it's because those documents were destroyed. If they were destroyed, it is because they existed. Conclusion: Oxford is the author.

He adds that the current state of teaching in the world and particularly in the US prevents to realise that there was a time when a twelve years old schoolboy knew mythology and used to read Ovid.

Henry Suhamy sees Shakespeare as a man of a very vast culture, but the culture of an autodidact. Universal rather than university culture. The result is a sort of diffuse encyclopedism.

His conclusion is that for the anti-stratfordians art is a phenomena from life and the author a man of action and experience amateur of theater, when for the stratfordians Shakespeare is a man of theater spectator of the world who knows the difference between art and life.

After Henry Suhamy, my quick summary.

So basically, i was alluding to the social condition of the author as the main motivation for the XIXth century anti-stratfordianism.

This, i wrote quickly, with the book in one hand and my other hand on the laptop keyboard. There may be stupid faults.


Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 01 May 2025 at 10:37pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 May 2025 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The single greatest argument against the Stratford man is the man himself, his near total lack of connection to the theater or writing of any kind.

This is why most official “biographies” of Shakespeare tend to be strung together with repeated uses of phrases like “might have”, “could have”, “probably would have” and the like. A man named William Shakespeare who was the greatest author of his time (and perhaps any time) is as intangible as the ghost of Hamlet’s father. Only by using the Shakespeare name—which he mostly did not*—can a connection be made.

———-

* As most of you know, spelling was not formalized in Elizabethan times. Scribes would write what they heard—often multiple variations on the same page! In the case of the Stratford man, documents referring to him mostly use phonetic spellings of “Shaxsper”, the traditional Warkwickshire pronunciation.

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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 02 May 2025 at 12:54am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Stephane: So basically, i was alluding to the social condition of the author as the main motivation for the XIXth century anti-stratfordianism.

**

Thank you for taking the time, Stephane.

In the 30 years since that book came out, much has been added to the overall understanding of this interesting historical question-- much has been added to our understanding about dating the plays, the roles of the aristocracy in play-writing (particularly the Earl of Oxford's role), and to the lives of the two men who are forever linked to the work-- the 3rd Earl of Southampton and the eldest son of an illegal wool dealer from Stratford named "William Shaksper". None of the arguments you posted hold water.

As John points out, the real problem with the Stratford man is that we know so much about him which is impossible to reconcile with what we find in the works.

But an additional problem with your book's claims is that published references saying "Shakespeare" is a pen name do not start in the 19th century, but in the very years that Shakespeare's works were printed.

In other words, in his lifetime, there was an uncontested narrative that "Shakespeare" was a pen name.

It was 7 years after he died before the first whisper of what would become the "Stratfordian myth" even began.

Edited by Mark Haslett on 02 May 2025 at 1:13am
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 02 May 2025 at 7:32am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

An interesting thought experiment, Mark. And imagine if Shakespeare had come a bit later, when people actually CARED about who wrote plays! It would have been no mystery at all. 

As it is, the author resides inside a "black hole" of information, which makes it hard for me to understand the absolutely certainty of the Stratfordians. I mean, one thing is to believe that Shaxsper is Shakespeare, but to dismiss all doubt? 


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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 02 May 2025 at 10:05am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Bachman: it was well known in the early 90s he was Stephen King. It was a name for novels of a different kind that what he published as Stephen King, that's all. I last read King before i did my military service, and i did it from december 1993.
I probably knew King was Bachman as soon as 1991, maybe before. (Probably 1990: Rage, The Long Walk, Thinner. It was said either on the backcover of the french édition or a preface. Wasn't there also a text were he said he decided to "kill" Bachman? Maybe the préface to one of those or to the first Dark Tower novel: The Gunslinger?)
 
I just reread yours and JB posts in The Stratford Man thread from 2021 to have a better idea of your positions. Overall solid and serious, and JB's theory that the name came from the comedians to have a recognizable brand for the public is also something believable.

But i am not making a point in favor of the Stratford Man. I don't know who is the man behind the works, and without proof, everything we have is theories, possibilities, a contested tradition and alternative (often fringe) theories  that sometime are made by competent schollars and often (at the very least adopted) by self-apointed specialists. There's nothing wrong with being passionate, and you may learn almost as much as an autodidact as through formal studies for the very simple reason that our university teachers put their ideas and teaching in books. And there may also be other serious sources.

Yep, my book by Suhamy is almost 30 years old and that objection is obviously not a surprise for me.
As an exemple it doesn't take in consideration Diana Price's book (that i didn't read either, but i read the interesting  interview of her you linked to. Her position is a good and wise position, even if we can argue about details.)

About the Oxford case, Henry Suhamy recommend to read the works of the oxfordians from J.T Looney to "the currents champions" (1996): Charlton Ogburn, Russell Des Cognets, Stephanie Capuana.

Of the testament you seem to considerate a major argument against the Stratford Man, he says: "he had a testament redacted a month before his death"
(It's been years since i last reread his book, so that's only what i found in this second chapter, after a quick browsing.) 

In my original comment what i did was to underline the various alternatives to the startfordian tradition are weak and, at least in the XIXth century, more probable than not, motivated by social préjudice.

Can we take seriously the epigrams that, in Shakespeare's time or soon after his death seem to doubt he is the author? Why not, but it is not the same than the serious doubts of the last alf of the XVIIIth century and even less than the structured attacks we have since the XIXth century. I am aware of nothing more than those, but if you are speaking of something else, please  tell.

As Henry Suhamy underlines there's some intellectual exigence in the works of Shakespeare. For Suhamy, it is more probable than not that given the local responsabilities of his father  Will attended grammar school. "It is reasonable to supput that the bailiff of the town didn't disdain to send his sons there." John Shakspere is an exemple of social mobility with highs and lows. His wife Mary Arden wasn't from a poor family either. (And later neither was William's wife Anne Hathaway, from Shottery, wich seems to be the consensus on the graphy and the person.)

A last word about the various signings you posted in that other thread: it is not necessarily a sign of a lack of culture, or what should we say of the ones of comics' artists?  You may argue it is not exactly the same, and that those are done to catch the attention of the public, but who never played with his signature? And it was also another time.





Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 02 May 2025 at 10:30am
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