My friend is a Marine-and he says civilians. Usually not complimentary tone when he does so.  Somehow he doesn't realize that may bother me.

Rob wrote:  Matt Hawes wrote: ...That has led to many, like you, Rob, who actually thought, or still think, that it is supposed to be spandex.... I don;t still think it.

I know, that's why I phrased my comment like I did.

 work at an autobody shop and  I refer to customers as, "One more idiot coming in her trying to suck the life out of me." 

I'm sure lots of occupations use "civilian" to discuss people not in their line of work.  If John used it to describe anyone not working in comics - that wouldn't make me cringe.  When comic readers, however, use it to describe non-comic readers, it seems like they're saying their knowledge of comics sets them above the rest of the herd a bit.

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Um...er...JB does use it to describe non-comic book reading peoples.  That's were I picked it up.

MPH

Patrick wrote: ...I dont' find the term "graphic novel" to be elitist.  I use it when describing a graphic novel  and use comic book when describing a comic book...

Used in such a manner, you are using the term correctly. A graphic novel is a format. The magazine-sized comics with original art and story are graphic novels. A comic book publication at standard size and format is called a comic, or a comic book.

Matt Hawes wrote: ..."Graphic novels," used in describing comics smacks of the same pretentiousness that has people saying, "It is not a movie, my dear boy, it is a film!"...

My point, as underlined above, is that using the term to describe regular-sized comics is pretentious, and it is.

Rob wrote: ...My wife took the air out of the balloon out of graphic novel when she spent a month making fun of me (before she was my wife) for using the term.  I said some movie was based on a graphic novel (maybe Road to Perdition???) and she said "What's that?"  I described it, and she said "Oh, a comic book.  Graphic novel." with a smirk on her face "Come on."...

This illustrates my point very nicely. Using hoity-toity terms like "graphic novels" to describe the standard format comic book does not elevate it to literature in the eyes of those people that just think of comics as "funny books."

To change people's perceptions, you have to work on getting people to understand that comics can be used to tell all kinds of stories. They are just another medium, like TV and movies, for which to tell stories. Calling comics something other than what they are will not make people who dislike comics embrace the medium.

A sanitation engineer is still a garbage collector, and there's nothing wrong with that.

A rose is still a rose, and smells just as sweet.

How can we expect others not to mock the medium, if we are too embarrassed to call comic books what they really are?

Patrick wrote: ...I work at an autobody shop and  I refer to customers as, "One more idiot coming in her trying to suck the life out of me." ..

Funny, I would think "Here's another person that will help me send my kids to college."

But, that's just me.

And you had a trouble with the term "civilian"??? 

Matthew Hansel wrote: ...Um...er...JB does use it to describe non-comic book reading peoples.  That's were I picked it up...

It's not like JB is calling these non-comics readers "idiots." That would be as bad as calling a customer to your business that name. I wonder if those same customers would be as insulted at being called a "civilian"? Hmm. Doubt it.

Patrick wrote: ...Anytime anyone uses it to describe people who don't READ comics, I think it sounds elitist...

Sorry, but the moment you told us that you call your customers (anyone that walks through the door) an "idiot," you lost the right to call anyone else elitist.