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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 1
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It's more likely that there are more "geniuses" alive today than ever before. The nature of the global culture and overexposure tends to desensitize people to what's going on right in front of them. Also, pop-culture and the "low-brow", has taken the forefront among the masses over the last century or so. Most citizens are more impressed by relatively unimportant people like actors and athletes than they are world movers like great scientists, artists, philosophers, and world leaders. Let us not forget that many legendary geniuses were all but unappreciated during their day and only with time did they get the respect that they deserved.
I remember learning not long ago-while watching a program on the Science Channel-that 90% of all scientists that have ever lived are living today.
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Floyd Kermode
Byrne Robotics Member
Worked Really Hard to Get Banned
Joined: 12 June 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 36
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:02pm | IP Logged | 2
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Someone mentioned Finnegan's Wake. It is brilliant, providing you don't expect to understand any of it. It's hardly a normal book but once you've accepted that, it just rambles along like the world's longest collection of cryptic crossword clues and misspellings and every now and then there's a brilliant quotable bit. Oh and for those who are interested, the Burgess book 'Here Comes Everyone' is a big help.
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Pete York
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | 3
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David Brunt wrote:
| I don't think most people 'hate' John Byrne. They just find out about
him from this site and he goes down in their estimation. ' used to like
his work but then I found out about the person' seems to be the refrain. |
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So the existence of Byrne Robotics has actually hurt John's Q rating? Maybe he should have been a shut-in, he could be J.D. Salinger by now. I agree that "most people don't 'hate' John Byrne". After all, it takes a special kind of anti-social, immature computer dork to hate a comic book professional they'll never meet, yet spend time fostering and furthering that hate.
Anyway, modern day Byrne Bashing is based on fables that long pre-date this board, and the 'Net for that matter. And anyone who jumped on this particular bandwagon in the last few years is likely doing so to 'join', as in the aforementioned herd mentality that tends to prevail on message boards. Anything taken from John's online presence is just an excuse for these developmentally challenged few to use for their cause. It's all quite pathetic to someone who started reading comics 30 years ago when all you could or wanted to talk about was what was in the books.
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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | 4
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Responding to the point about separating the artist from the work, for me it is sometimes impossible. To use the Gary Glitter example (and aside from the fact that I don't have any interest in his music) he's someone whose work I would never purchase. If someone is a pedophile, a bigot, homophobe, etc, and still alive and possibly using the money they earn to support those causes, they won't see any of my money.
Regarding JB specifically, I don't think it's remotely possible the man's a racist. Over the years he's probably worked on more minority characters than most comic creators, doing so as a writer and an artist (and in books that he owns, like Next Men). And when he does he treats them as independent characters, not stereotypes or ciphers.
At times, I'll admit, the way he chooses to make a point sets my teeth on edge, and there are probably quite a few things we disagree on. But I don't know him personally, and so I'm not going to judge him personally. I'm a fan of his work, I think he has a perspective on comics, and a willingness to share it, that makes for interesting conversations, even when I disagree.
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JD Morrow
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 78
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | 5
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haha...I'm sure this was already said, but this sounds like a headline that Jonah might have come up with for the Bugle's front page.
This is my first post, and this seemed like a good place to introduce myself. I've been a fan of John Byrne's since the early 80's. He's one of my favorite artists of all time, and also one of my favorite writers. He's good at what he does, and he's professional. You have no idea how much I hate fill-in artists, so somebody of Byrne's quality and speed is most appreciated.
I do think you probably rub a few nerds the wrong way with things you say. The only time I really found something you said to be "wrong", both in context, as well as in better judgement, was the "Christopher Reeve is not a hero" thing. I have heard one John Byrne horror story from a convention, and it came from one of my best friends, who *was* the biggest John Byrne fan that ever lived. He tells me that you were very rude to him and his wife, as if it was a bother to talk to him. Even then, I don't pay much mind to that stuff.
You seem to interact with your fans fine enough at these forums, and give more insight to them than any other comic writers or artists that I've seen on the net. Seriously, you don't seem like an ogre at all to me, just somebody that the nerd patrol decided to form a lynch mob mentality with, and I really don't respect those kinds of kiddie gangs.
I have seen so many threads dedicated to you on other forums. Created for no other purpose than to watch what's said and bash. It's pathetic. Just look at this group of rejects from Mark Millar's board who now have their own little space.
http://yourmomsbasement.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5674
John, for somebody like you, who did so much for the industry (and don't be modest, you did), I think more respect should be shown. You're kinda the George Lucas of the comics world. Both of you have done so many great things, yet you have small minded little guys running around the internet acting as if you both invaded Poland and tried to exterminate the Jews. If somebody thinks you come across jaded and bitter, you just might, but who could blame you. I know if it were me in your position, I'd handle it much worse than you do.
But hey, if a gang of angry nerds want to protest your very existence, I guess there's nothing anybody can do about it, but when I see the professionals, and I use that word lightly, engaging in that stuff, it's disgusting.
Keep up the great work!
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Rob Spalding
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 June 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1152
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:18pm | IP Logged | 6
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I thought on the Gary Glitter statement I made, and have re-thought it to Michael Jackson. Great work, unproven claims, does some stuff that people disagree with.
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Pete York
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 7
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Rob Spalding touches on an interesting point. When John says why he doesn't like 'Watchmen', or 'Swamp Thing' or 'Killing Joke', its too often taken by some fans as a personal insult. After all, Alan Moore, for a lot of fans, lends legitimacy to reading comics, something they would otherwise be embarrassed about. This has no doubt made John a target amongst a certain group who feel personally affronted by his opinion. It again comes back to security with one's self, or a low intelligence. Debate his point or move on, without engaing in character sniping from afar. JB is here and available. For me, the best part of the mess from last week (I forgot the dude's name already) was John answering the Sub-Mariner point.
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Dave Farabee
Byrne Robotics Member
Quit Forum
Joined: 01 September 2004
Posts: 981
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 8
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QUOTE:
| I have really mixed feeling about reading a long, well-thought-out justification for said product. |
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Have you read any of the reviews or overviews of LOST GIRLS? I have, and none of them make it sound like the book's intended to be a justification for masturbation - more of an exploration of all the mysteries of sex. From Neil Gaiman's review:
It is one of the tropes of pure pornography that events are without consequence. No babies, no STDs, no trauma, no memories best left unexamined. Lost Girls, however, is all about consequences. It's also about more things than sex – war, music, love, lust, repression and time, to pick a handful of subjects (I could pick more). It's the kind of smut that would have no difficulty in demonstrating to an overzealous prosecutor that it has unquestionable artistic validity beyond its simple first amendment right to exist.
Now, unless one believes Gaiman to be an incompetant, this is a pretty noteworthy defense of the book. And, hey, he's even read it! "All about consequences," he writes. Does that sound like PLAYBOY, JUGGS, MAXIM, or any other jerk-off magazine?
And you can write his opinion off if you want - maybe he's just showing Brit solidarity! Maybe he's addicted to cartoon porn and will do anything to justify it! Maybe he's just setting up a legal defense for his pal, Moore! But from what I know of Gaiman, he's what you'd call a pretty decent bloke, and I don't believe any of that of him. Based on his review and other reviews I've read, I think it's specious to write off LOST GIRLS with as purely prurient materiel.
Indeed, nearly every review I've read has acknowledged that the net effect of the book is not overly titillating. It sounds a lot like a book that just tries to get readers thinking about sex, and knowing Moore, probably in some challenging ways. Sex being one if not THE most primal aspects of human behavior, I can't imagine a more worthy topic.
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Dave Farabee
Byrne Robotics Member
Quit Forum
Joined: 01 September 2004
Posts: 981
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 9
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Joe Zhang wrote:
| Actually Dave was quite upset, bringing up the matter again a day later. I don't blame him. On the other hand, I don't read pedophile comic books. |
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Joe, I'm still waiting to hear back on what you were talking about with this post. It seems an overt lie to me, and borderline libelous in its implication of pedophiliac tastes.
Clarify the matter for me.
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Jay Matthews
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 8:08pm | IP Logged | 10
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This is killing me. Everytime I see a Dave Farabee post, I feel the urge to post "Then you are a complete asshole." Sorry, Dave, it's not how I feel, and it's got nothing to do with anything in the post.
"Then you are a complete asshole" is becoming my own personal "I'm the goddamned Batman!"
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Dave Farabee
Byrne Robotics Member
Quit Forum
Joined: 01 September 2004
Posts: 981
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | 11
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Jay, I'm hoping the net effect of all this is that when someone reads a post from me, they'll subconsciously hear "complete asshole" in their head directly after. Like a little whispered voice.
(complete asshole)
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | 12
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I can understand how this work could be a legitimate piece on one hand, but can't the other side see how it could be considered a superficially sophisticated excuse to be shocking and perverse as well? I think all sides should be honest and admit that there is a good chance that Alan Moore's intent involves a little of both.
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Topic Closed)
