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Topic: John Byrne - Threat or Menace? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Darren Taylor
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Joined: 22 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 6042
Posted: 03 July 2006 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 1 post reply


Dear Agony Uncle,

All my really cool friends wont let me kiss their ass any more if I say JB's actually okay!?!?

please help, I couldn't stand at the counter and shoot the breeze with the guy behind the counter if I'm not "In-da-club"!

Desperately,

S. Heep

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135268
Posted: 03 July 2006 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

...you're a celebrity...

****

A celebrity is one who is known to many persons he
is glad he doesn't know.

                                              H. L. Mencken
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Luke Smyth
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 791
Posted: 03 July 2006 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Truth.  Okay JB, I get that, I believe in it too.  I also believe in fair play and common decency.  I don't think you can realistically expect people to play fair unless you are prepared to do so yourself.

Two of the more prominent members of this board have conducted little short of character assassination of another member who happens to have a differing opinion from them, a difference of opinion you share.  That member has despite his differing opinion behaved courteously through out.

My question to you JB as an advocate of truth, do you condone their behaviour?

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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

One man's "courteously" is another's "Oh God I Am So Tired of His Supercillious Attitude".

You're lifting one exchange and presenting it as if it is representative of a common pattern of behavior. Not so. As others have already noted (and which you are ignoring to make your point), there is nothing new here.

I neither condone nor condemn those members you single out. They react as they see fit -- as I do. And one of them, as you also choose to ignore, went a long time tyring to "play fair" before all of his buttons were finally pushed.

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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I've been lucky enough to meet many people whose work I respect (JB being one of them, back when MOS #1 first came out-- you signed the book for me, JB, and answered my question about Fearbook, so... I have no Bad Byrne story. ah well). In nearly every case, the encounter has been a delightful one, partly because I've tried to be respectful and appropriate to the person I'm meeting.

The handful of really negative encounters I've had-- and I've had a few-- did not affect my appreciation for that creator's work. All it did was persuade me that that person was either 1) having a really bad day or 2) a jerk I'm glad I don't know.

People often make assumptions about a creator based on their work or what they think they see in a creator's work. (Often the latter is a wild distortion that they have never corrected.) These assumptions are meaningless because they proceed from a complete lack of information. If the reader doesn't know the creator personally, why should they assume anything about the creator's opinions or beliefs? It's ignorance in operation to think that creating a character with repugnant beliefs or habits means the creator feels the same way.

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Jason Fulton
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I guess comic book creators aren't allowed to have a bad day, or be, y'know, people. Why don't we hold the actual work a given creator produces up to this standard?
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

First off: WOW.  Some of the back-and-forth in this thread makes me think I should wear a cup before daring to enter the discussion.

But I'm going to leave Lost Girls alone - I have a comment to make about it but it's not what I want to talk about.  I want to try to stay on topic - and I stipulate that everything I have to say is pure pop psychology.

For starters - I don't go out much.  Crowds give me the willies, and I can't stand to be around people who are drinking alcohol (just a phobia of drunk people) or smoking (burns my eyes and throat for the first hour, and then I'm a little freaked out that it STOPPED burning my eyes and throat).  Plus, I have always just preferred a quiet night at home, alone.

Then one night I went to see Frank Black & The Catholics perform in Indianapolis.  I called three of my five brothers who were also FB & The Cs fans and basically made them buy tickets also.  I was the one who introduced them to one of the great songwriters of our time and I was very proud to be there for the show with my brothers.  My family isn't super-close so this was a real treat.  Anyway, after the show we were in the parking lot waiting for traffic to clear and there was the man himself, Frank Black, in the parking lot chatting with fans.  For an hour.  While I stood, less than thirty feet away, debating whether or not to approach.  In the end, the decision was simple: I'd already had a wonderful night; why ruin it?

Why would talking to FB ruin it?  Why on Earth would I think that?  He was talking, GRINNING even, with his fans.  There was no reason to feel the way I did, but I did.  I was worried that I'd say something stupid and make a fool of myself.  And so then I got thinking that FB would agree with me that I had made a fool of myself.  THEN I worried that FB would realize I'd made a fool of myself before I realized I'd made a fool of myself, and that he'd be only to happy to point it out.  I'd worked out an entire interaction that left me in a fetal position at the feet of a man I regarded as a genius, and he was regarding me with something akin to bemused disdain.

This is what I think happens to Byrne Bashers.  They claim to dislike JB, but I think it's a reaction formation to the hatred they think he would feel for them if he knew them.  They are living out unilaterally a perceived mutual dislike.

That's what I think, anyway.

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Brandon Pennison
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Joined: 26 June 2006
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I can certainly see why you don't go to comic conventions anymore JB.  Although I have been a comic fan my whole life, I have maybe gone to 3 or 4 ever and I can see how it would be a feeding frenzy for "sad boy" detractors.  Of course I have always hated running into shady dealers looking to rip off kids who are trying to sell their books, but that is another topic altogether.  You are so right about the offendee becoming the offender, that happens all the time.  I just don't see how common courtesy gets thrown out the window so often, especially when people think it is a "once in a lifetime" opportunity, like meeting you.  If you are nice to someone, they will probably be nice and civil back.  COMMON SENSE to me.
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Thomas Gerhardt
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Joined: 14 March 2005
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Despite the danger of being insulted, what irks me most is that Mr.
Byrne's career reminds me a bit of John Travolta's career – he was
absolutely stunning people left and right when he made Superman his
own, but as of late, none of his projects grab me. Perhaps this is because
I really don't care about second- or third-rate superheroes anymore, and
that is my own fault then.

I just think Byrne can be better than what he is doing right now. Like, a
proper European GN series (I can hook you up with a French agent LOL
not that you need that) or a VERTIGO series that has a fresh view on
something that he does best: science fiction.

As for being controversial, well, he has firm opinions, others have firm
opinions. Some people will not play well with each other, and that's okay,
as long as it is being kept civil on both sides.
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Joe Franklin
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Thomas,
So ACTION COMICS, in your mind, is a "second- or third-rate superhero" comic?

Joe
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Thomas Gerhardt
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Yes, Joe, sadly yes.

The way Superman is now, the character is hardly what he was in 1986.
They took away most of the things that made me care about him when I
was younger, most of the things that were inserted by Byrne when he re-
vamped him.

The depth of the backstory (the arrogance of technology/the de-
humanization of the Kryptonian people) that led to Krypton's desctruction
– gone, replaced, taken out of continuity

The vulnerability that showed Clark is the real person, not Superman –
gone

The very best Superman story (continuity-wise, a mess, I know) in which
he hs to kill the Kryptonian criminals in the pocket universe. Gone

In ACTION, he was merely an illustrator

Sorry.

(and I did buy a few issues...in some of them, it didn't even look like the
Byrne Superman. For example, I did love GENERATIONS...those were fun
rides...)

Edited by Thomas Gerhardt on 03 July 2006 at 8:51am
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Dave Carr
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posts: 1850
Posted: 03 July 2006 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

 Thomas Gerhardt wrote:
In ACTION, he was merely an illustrator


That's like saying Michelangelo "merely" painted churches.


Edited by Dave Carr on 03 July 2006 at 9:07am
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