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Topic: John Byrne - Threat or Menace? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Matt Linton
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Joined: 2005 December 13
Posts: 2022
Posted: 2006 July 03 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I think another thing to remember is that of all those who read comics, only a percentage read superhero comics.  Of that percentage, only a smaller percentage comment in any way on the internet.  And of that smaller percentage, an even smaller group engages in Byrne-bashing.  Some of the bashers are high-profile (Rich Johnston, the bulk of the Newsarama forum) but they're a very small number overall.  

I do think there's a distinction between the knee-jerk bashing that some folks engage in, and someone who is honestly offended by something JB says.  After all, he's a human being, and at times he's going to be wrong, or say something out of line.  Just as some other boards leap all over Byrne when he does so (and often when he doesn't), it sometimes seems like those who do genuinely feel he's wrong about something are lumped in with the worst of the bashers.

Another point, regarding the JBF specifically, is that there are certainly posters here who cross the line (and I'm sure some would include me in that group).  Do some folks get banned who shouldn't, while others who probably should, don't?  Sure.  But that's the way the world works.  It isn't perfect.

Finally, and here's where I think there is a distinction between the JBF and some other boards, the JBF is a forum set up for and run by fans of John Byrne.  It's not designed to be a take-all-comers free-for-all forum.  You can disagree with JB (and any others here) about a wide range of topics, but you're asked to do so civilly (even when others may not be doing you the same courtesy).

I came to the forum as a fan of John Byrne, and because after a year or so of reading it, it seemed like an interesting place to discuss comics (among other things).  I did so, knowing that I disagree with JB and some others here about plenty of issues (and in all honesty, I thought there was a good possibility, based on some of the rumors as well as some of the things I saw, that I'd be banned and/or offended within in a week).  Thankfully, that hasn't happened, probably in part because I put much more thought into HOW I was making my point during disagreements, and being willing to let things drop after I felt I had made my point.

I think the biggest question some of the folks who join need to ask themselves is, if you're not a fan of John Byrne, then why are you here?
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John Byrne
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Joined: 2005 May 11
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Posted: 2006 July 03 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Calling people assholes for ordering questionably artistic books is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

***

"Questionably artistic"? Do I really have to do this litany again? Characters created for children's books. Characters not owned by the person using them to do, by his own admission, pornography. One character currently the sole property of a children's charity hospital which depends in part on fees paid by licensees of that character. And this is something to support?

I use "asshole" because Penn & Teller have taught me I can't be sued for so doing. Otherwise, there are somre really choice words I would use.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 2006 July 03 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

If the creator were talented enough and you enjoyed their versions of your favorite characters, wouldn't you give them a chance to make a new character become one of your favorites?

***

Nothing new under the sun. One of Roger Stern's favorite stories is of when, working on THE AVENGERS, he received a letter asking "Whatever happend to George Perez?" George was working on the phenomenally popular TEEN TITANS at the time.

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Darragh Greene
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Joined: 2005 March 16
Location: Ireland
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Posted: 2006 July 03 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Good post, Matt L.

 Matt Linton wrote:
I think the biggest question some of the folks who
join need to ask themselves is, if you're not a fan of John Byrne, then why
are you here?


Excellent point. Although I do think you ought to include the category of
readers of JB too!

Fan=fanatic; there's no way I'd ever want to be mistaken for someone
whose judgements bypassed his rational and critical faculties.
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Paul Greer
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Joined: 2004 August 18
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Posted: 2006 July 03 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

How anyone could have missed Perez on the Titans would be beyond me. Wasn't that one of the best selling comics of that era?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 2006 July 03 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Compared to Marvel? Not really.
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Matt Linton
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Posted: 2006 July 03 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Speaking of Rich Johnston, we're officially in Bizarro World.  His latest column contains a defense of JB against the whole racism thing, and a recommendation that folks read the Atom.

Not in anyway saying it makes up for his juvenile trend of seeking out "controversial" Byrne statements to fill his column, just thought it was odd.
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JD Morrow
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Joined: 2006 July 02
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Posted: 2006 July 03 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Nothing new under the sun. One of Roger Stern's favorite stories is of when, working on THE AVENGERS, he received a letter asking "Whatever happend to George Perez?" George was working on the phenomenally popular TEEN TITANS at the time.

**********
Speaking of Roger Stern, there is another point that I forgot to mention. Guys like Roger Stern and Walt Simonson are two of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. Frank Miller is also somebody that I've never heard anything bad said about. How come these guys only say nice things about you if you're such a beast?
Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't those guys be a better guage of what kind of person you are than the countless Byrne bashing crew? I know who's word I'd take in that regard, and when you think about it, it's truely sad that so many others can't put two and two together so easily and prefer to just flock with the other sheep. I can't think of any reason they so readily hate on you, other than the possibility that their own lives are miserable, and misery loves company.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 2006 July 03 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

They hate me because they're supposed to, JD.

Independent thought is discourage in fandom.
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Darragh Greene
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Location: Ireland
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Posted: 2006 July 03 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=35012

Are these for real?
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Chad Carter
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Posts: 9584
Posted: 2006 July 03 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

"What's a "chicken-fry"?  Is that a reference to people who work in the fast food industry?  Or some kind of diagonal reference to the old "black people like fried chicken" chestnut?  I don't get it."

It's a term originating from my mind from "chicken-fried steak", which is a Southern type thing. As in THE STAND miniseries when Stu Redman is told, "It makes me sick to see good men die while chicken-fried crap like you lives." Paraphrasing. I use it to designate any worthless degenerate ill-conception who disregards responsibility and has no moral or ethical stance whatsoever. (Not, I note, Stu Redman, but the term fit a whole subset of society, black, white, Mexican, whatever...human beings with no desire to better themselves, the world, or the quality of life. In other words, a "chicken-fry").

Of course you're ready to play the racial angle. Why would I be on this forum to begin with, and in this thread, if my whole stance is using racial epitaphs? How about some common sense?

And my assertion that this culture is D-U-N is valid, friend. Where's the advancement? Where are the great minds? The technology age is the new Dark Age. Originality cannot form in the soil of mediocrity. And what the technology age has provided is the immobilization of self, of the rise of the idea that "everyone has a chance". Well, they don't. That's a reality. Real genius, real talent, is now buried under mountains of mediocre voices crying out for attention. Stephen Hawking is the closest approximation of "greatness" this culture has left, one of a few voices left who might impart something that could change everything. And not everyone has to do that, but in this day and age, how would you know it? With mediocrity being hailed as genius left and right, and the subsequent relief of this culture to fall in line with that subterreanean watermark (since it doesn't require work), you're left with an empty fast food mentality ready to anoint the next temporary blip in the dwindling stream of great minds. No integrity, no worth.

I simply assert that the unborn aborted millions do not contain the key to mankind's modern or future relevance. It doesn't require one great genius to solve all the problems, or a Superman savior. It takes men and women committed to making the culture better, to solve the problems that people were interested in solving sometime in the 1960s, but which dissolved as fantasy soonafter. The culture is currently exhausted, and most likely only catastrophe will both result and solve the issue of lost potential. In 1968, man walked on the moon. 37 years later, where have things gone? Where are the advancements? Did all those abortions result in the death of the man who would have taken mankind to the stars, or to some subatomic dimension?

Highly likely that cat would have merely contributed to the next strain of ebola which will, no doubt, arise as nature attempts to balance out all of this overpopulation. The point that was made was that pro-choice does not preclude the existence of hope for a better world. Frankly, I'm more in the Ambrose Bierce camp, and was he really wrong? Some people thought 911 was going to change the culture. And it did, in all the wrong ways. Vats of jingoist peanut butter with no expiration date. Congratulations.

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Chad Carter
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Posted: 2006 July 03 at 1:28pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

 

It just occurred to me that the "Real Genius" beer ads actually sum up this society, and culture, perfectly. It's funny and painfully true at the same time. All that's left is if somebody figures out how to tap into the higher brain functions so that we can all wear cyber-helmets and dream our way out of this reality.

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