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Topic: Healthcare Debate (was: Quesada apologizes) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 8:55am | IP Logged | 1  

Either way, it's a lie.

****************************

This is true.... but only one will result in being banned.

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Michael Retour
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 2  

Knut it isnt me saying it.  You missed that.  It is Jane Hamsher and her definition is from: http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html : the Library of Economics and Liberty. 

They have a lengthy definition and right or wrong you don't just pop in and go "no, they're wrong" with a wave of your hand.

Read their definition.  


She makes the case Obama's bill is fascism.  Email her your disagreements.  I am not a fan of hers but merely point it out.  
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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 3  

Matthew at what point does a concerned group become a mob in your opinion? Do you wait until more violence is the result or do you speak out against it, once violence starts?

Boy, Jodi, you sure do not toss softballs. Honestly, I wish there was a pat easy answer to that one. A clue might be in the qualifications of "more violence" versus "once violence", but to my mind there is an even earlier tipping point.

As Oliver Wendell Holmes famously opined, "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." In that reasonable standard, I believe a group becomes a mob when it starts unreasonably infringing on the rights of others. (I qualify with "unreasonably" to discount such minor infringements like marches that impede my ability to drive down a street for a short period of time.)

Depending on how loose your definition of violence is, I would include threats and physical intimidation into the mix of violence (or at very least a precursor of violence). Slurs and hateful language, unfortunately, would fall short of that mark. While I might personally find it offensive, it is still an expression of free speech.

The great challenge, of course, is figuring out how close to that metaphorical "nose" my proverbial "fist" can come. The extremes -- contact and wide misses -- are obvious. It's the nuances that become much trickier.

I read on digg the right is now saying that Obama is a racist because he is taxing sun tanning and who uses tanning beds, yep white people. Proof positive he is a racist.

There is a slender ray of truth in this. There IS a 10 percent tanning tax being imposed, starting July 1. Like Jack Kemp used to say, "If you want to promote something, subsidize it. If you want to discourage something, tax it." Since there is a presumption that those who fake-n-bake have an increased risk for skin cancer, and national healthcare means we the people would be footing the bill, a tax to discourage the activity seems reasonable.

And thus, I think it's a bit of a stretch to assert the President and his administration are racist because of a tax applied on the melanin-challenged. Sun tanning is a choice, and there is no restriction on your rights prohibiting you or preventing you for partaking in that activity.

It's not like, for instance, the polls in Alabama where back in the day if you were black you had to correctly guess the number of beans in the jar to get your ballot. (And, somehow, no otherwise eligible black voters ever got the right number while the polling station was open...)


Edited by Matthew McCallum on 06 April 2010 at 10:42am
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Mike Benson
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 9:55am | IP Logged | 4  

Knut it isnt me saying it.  You missed that.

*****

Seriously?   You've played the fascism card yourself several times during this discussion.  No quoting.  No referencing.  Just YOU.  And now a post saying that you're merely pointing out that someone else said it? 

You're just throwing as much shit into the air as you can and then trying to duck before it hits the ground. 

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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 10:18am | IP Logged | 5  

Michael Retour, the "lengthy definition" they give on the site you link to is exactly the same as the one I was giving, with the exception of being long.

The only possible quibble is in how one discusses competition, as the Fascists decried competition where it resulted in waste through duplication of effort, not where it kept individual private companies small and divided against eachother.

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Michael Retour
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 6  

Oligarchies can be fascist.  I agree. 
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 11:29am | IP Logged | 7  

I've known black people that use tanning beds.
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Andrew Hess
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 8  

Taxing sun-tanning beds!?! That's unAmerican!

Doesn't Obama know that dark is beautiful?!? Unless, y'know, it happens to be your natural pigmentation, in which case it's wrong and different and there's no way I would vote for you and you must have been born in Africa and not Hawaii you can't fool me!!!

Okay, back to actual, y'know, debate and information and stuff.

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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 9  

Gosh, Andrew, I really don't see what the big deal is. There are a lot of cities that have a 10 percent bed tax. Now, admittedly, it's a HOTEL bed tax, but we're into creating new tax frontiers.

After sun tan beds will come taxes on flower beds, road beds, river beds...

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Joseph Gauthier
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 10  

Doesn't Obama know that dark is beautiful?!? Unless, y'know, it happens to be your natural pigmentation, in which case it's wrong and different and there's no way I would vote for you and you must have been born in Africa and not Hawaii you can't fool me!!!

Okay, back to actual, y'know, debate and information and stuff.

Isn't that sort of like a saboteur throwing a wrench into the factory works, and then shouting, back to work?

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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 11  

Taxing sun-tanning beds!?! That's unAmerican!

********************

It was obviously done to piss off John Boehner.

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Mike Benson
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Posted: 06 April 2010 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 12  

Next thing you know they'll be taxing booze and cigarettes to build stadiums. 

 

 

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