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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | 1
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In all fairness, I find any sort of organized rebellion against out of
controll spending to be dishonest.Everyone is against out opf controll spending. No one is for wasting
money - that's a false and divisive stance. The difference is what each person considers out of controll. if you're against a specific use of money, work on that, but making a
blanket claim is just a way to hide your real intentions. Basically, even if you have the best intentions and deeply believe in
bootstrap economics, you'll end up looking bad if you stop providing
food or shelter or funding for the destitute, so you claim it's a matter
of out of controll spending or suddenly worrying about the economy
(that was ravaged under Reagan, and the Bushes but you only care as
of Jan 2009, when it's for sure that more money will be spent in ways
you don't like). Etc. I don't aim this specifically at anyone here - not at Jodi or Matthew,
but their talk set me off. I kn ow that both of them want the
government to controll it's spending - I believe them 100%. You
know why? Because everyone, left and right, wants that. That's what
made me think of it.
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Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2710
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 10:43pm | IP Logged | 2
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But Jeff, that's a 2004 map produced by the Democratic Leadership Committee when the Evil Governor George W. Bush -- his last legally elected office -- was in power in Washington and it was our national moral duty to see him justly removed.
That's ENTIRELY different from all the negative discourse and partisanship that we have in the country today...
Mike,
There's a huge difference between bootstrap economics and fiscal responsibility. We need to be making strategic investments in things that improve the common wealth (infrastructure), things that protect the common wealth (national defense and security) and, if you'll permit the allusion, social programs that teach people how to fish rather than keeping them on the line. It's not a Red versus Blue issue. It's about doing right by the people of this country, both the current generation and the generations to come.
Jodi,
I think you are someone of good character, too (and a talented artist to boot). I consider myself a pragmatist because neither side has cornered the market on bright ideas and there is a lot to be learned through listening and thoughtful discourse. Unfortunately, all too often most people are interested in just scoring cheap debating points in a tit-for-tat manner. It all amounts to trench warfare that doesn't gain any ground for either side.
Personally, I'd much rather chat with something who holds different views than I do, not in an effort to convert them, but to understand why they hold those views and use it as an opportunity to refine my thinking.
Edited by Matthew McCallum on 06 April 2010 at 10:56pm
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Jeff Gillmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1920
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | 3
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Ah, you're right Matthew. The banner "Targeting Strategy" and the text saying "Behind Enemy Lines" obviously aren't connected at all to a war or violence in any way. Let alone "states should be ripe targets". Whatever was I thinking?
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 10:57pm | IP Logged | 4
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I think my examples caused you to miss my point: the bottom line is
that everyone wants the government to act wisely financially.
Anything else is just differences on how to accomplish that.My point was that it's not a left v right issue, so I'm not sure why you
felt compelled to correct me on that point.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 10:59pm | IP Logged | 5
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Ha ha... Matthew and Jeff... I totally was ignoring that conversation - I
just got it.Ha ha... you nuts... "b-b-but both sides are bad. So vote Republican!" You guys ought to take that act on the road.
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Jeff Gillmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1920
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 11:00pm | IP Logged | 6
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Mike, if you were close by, I would take you out and buy you a big ol' glass of the beverage of your choice. You're exactly right. We all want the government to do the right thing. The problems arise deciding on what the right thing actually is.
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Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2710
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 11:01pm | IP Logged | 7
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No problem, Jeff. We all get a little blinded now and then. Sorry to be the one handing out the tough love to make you see reason, but we've really got to cut down on this unnecessary partisanship.
(By the way, have you seen the greeting card with Obama and Hillary on the front and the President says "Your first job as Secretary of State is to go to Kenya, find my birth certificate and burn the damn thing!" I'm waiting for a special occasion to send it to Jodi and Mike...)
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Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2710
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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You guys ought to take that act on the road.
Didn't our booking agent Sarah give you that map of clearly marked performance venues for the Jeff and Matt On Target Tour? (Alas, as a resident alien I cannot vote, nor belong to a political party nor even contribute financially. Jeff will have to go on tour without me...)
And earlier, wasn't offering a correction Mike. More clarification and concurrence.
By the way, congratulations on that very cool commission!
Edited by Matthew McCallum on 06 April 2010 at 11:13pm
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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Another thing Is there was not a bunch of nut jobs threatening to kill Republican congressmen.
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Jeff Gillmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1920
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 11:23pm | IP Logged | 10
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Oh come on Matthew! Who better to comment on the state of US politics than a foreigneer? Or as we say in the South, furener. I'm sure Al and Brad (among others) would agree. : )
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Jeff Gillmer
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United States
Posts: 1920
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | 11
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Oh, and since many here are convinced what political party I belong to, I'll fess up. I am a member of the Elder Gods party. 
You should have seen the looks on people's faces when I wore that to work on Election Day!
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Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2710
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| Posted: 06 April 2010 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | 12
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Another thing Is there was not a bunch of nut jobs threatening to kill Republican congressmen.
No, of course not. Except this one. Oh, and these ones. Give me more than 30 seconds on Google and I'm sure we can find you more names... |
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Topic Closed)
