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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 12:46am | IP Logged | 1
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The thing that pissed me off with the Duke Lacrosse thing was that piece of trash Nancy Grace conveniently took the night off instead of womaning up and saying she was wrong.
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Michael Sommerville
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 417
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 1:04am | IP Logged | 2
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Now don't get me started on Nancy grace(runnaway bride a few years back).
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Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2710
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 1:14am | IP Logged | 3
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Michael,
Further to Mike O'Brien's post, although many people interchange the terms racism and bigotry, I think there is an essentially, operative difference.
Racism is viewing people through the prism of their race, and making judgments about them positively or negatively based solely on that criteria. Bigotry is discounting people prejudicially, based on their race or a host of other concerns.
The reason I draw this distinction is because part of my job is liaison to the African-American community, and I've encountered in my travels many people in that community whose default position is "This is happening to me only because I am black."
Growing up in multi-cultural Canada, I admit this is a foreign and bewildering concept to me. Not the idea that bad things have happened to black people -- Lord knows we're well aware of all those sins -- but rather that one's personal responsibility can be abrogated in such a cavalier manner.
Imagine the worldview of that attitude using one simple example: If I get re-promanded at work, it cannot be because of my performance. Rather, it must be because of my skin colour. I'm not at fault. It has nothing to do with how I act or what I do. I don't need to change.
Imagine if you took a similar attitude to life's numerous corrective moments.
A quick story to illustrate the point further:
There was a basketball tournament we hosted a few months ago, and in a playoff game the referee kept blowing the whistle on this one player. After one whistle too many, the player (who was black) turned on the referee (who was white) and said "You're just calling fouls on me because I'm black!" (The actual comment was slightly more profanity laced.) The scorekeeper (who was black), leapt to the defense of the referee and said "No, he's calling you because you're playing like a dirty SOB." After that, the guy cleaned up his act, and I don't recall him being called for a foul for the rest of the game.
I've often wondered what might have happened at that moment if the scorekeeper had been white...
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Wayde Murray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 October 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 3115
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:03am | IP Logged | 4
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Michael S. wrote: I am being devils advocate. Why is it that if you don't believe in what The President is pushing for, alot, not all, feel it is acceptable to insinuate that person is a closet racist? Are all those who dislike McCain against him due to his age? Is it fair to be ageist? ** The concept of ageism is different from that of racism. Young people may be ageist against the elderly, but the elderly (read "grownups") have consistently treated the young (read "children") as second-class individuals, not deserving of the full rights and priveleges of citizenship. This is not refered to as "reverse-ageism", since the very notion of "reverse-ageism" is silly: there are reasons for children to be treated as a protected group who cannot exercise full rights under the law. Definite stages of adulthood are specified for smoking, driving, drinking, voting, getting married, and holding a job. Ageism can be argued as having a legitimate place in society: there are afflictions that affect the elderly out of proportion to the general population, both physical and mental. Life expectancy goes down as age goes up. Each one of us is 24 hours closer to the grave than we were this time yesterday. There are things an old person simply cannot do as well, or for as long, as a younger person. Racism has no such legitimate qualifiers. In the past, a black person could "pass" if they were fair-skinned enough to pretend to be white. Only by totally and completely distancing themselves from their own heritage and ancestry could they receive all the benefits of citizenship, both legal and implied. Blacks who could not "pass" were never treated as equal to white, or even equal to those who could pass, including their own family members, and there is no good reason I can think of why that should be so. The fair-skinned person hasn't changed one iota from who they would have been with darker skin. Only the perception of others has changed. As to your question concerning calls of racism against those who oppose President Obama's policies, I would say this: if you have opposed those policies when they were presented by white politicians, your opposition to Obama may be based on the policies themselves. If you have never opposed (or would not currently oppose) those policies if they were made by a white person, you just may be racist. If you don't think the term "monkey" or "BOY" is inappropriate when refering to a black man, then I don't think there's any doubt: you're racist.
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Monte Gruhlke
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3299
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 6:14am | IP Logged | 5
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Hasn't anyone told the Tea Baggers (sigh) that it's okay to not like policies put forth if you don't agree with them? Go ahead, hate Obama's policies, that's cool. Maybe if enough people band together to oppose them on their merits, then you will see the change you want.
But when anyone uses slurs and spiteful rhetoric to express their views, then it's a sad, pathetic statement about those particular people themselves. Jodie is right, Hate is Hate, and no amount of "what I meant to say" will ever mask it.
What I find surprising is that in politics, it is standard policy to slur and smear opposing candidates, that it is perfectly acceptable to spew hateful bile to prove to others that this small-minded, hate-filled man should be your representative in government.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 6
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Jeff Gilmer;
I define racism as hatred, denigration, defamation, and/or calls for violence or unfair treatment directed toward any individual or group because of any single or combination of factors such as skin colour, physical features, religion, language, culture, belief, or immediate or ancestral geographic origin.
Racism also expresses itself in the denial of racism where the majority recognizes it. When racism occurs and someone who doesn't overtly practice racism denies, or at least passively refuses to recognize it, they are indeed being racist themselves. Racism is one of those issues where if you are not trying to be part of the solution then you are quite simply part of the problem.
When the vast majority of any group says 'this particular word/phrase/act/image is racist,' an individual saying 'I don't believe that's so' is practicing racism. That individual is being part of the problem.
Now here's an important distinction: everyone is capable of being racist, but one can be racist (ie. practice racism) without being a racist. It's like the difference between acting stupid or saying something stupid and actually being stupid.
Also, people who are otherwise fine, upstanding folk can be racist. Racism is evil, and being racist is an evil act, but that does not immediately make everything else one does evil. Acts, opinions and attitudes must all be judged one-on-one on an individual basis. There are people in my own life, whom I love, who are racist. I hate the evil of their racism, and decry it, and try to get them to recognize it, recognize it's inherent vile wrongness, and try to get them to change, but I still love them, and can still talk to them and have them as part of my life in a respectful manner.
Of course, Jeff, you are not a person in my life. You are lines of text on a message board with a name attached. So when you are racist - which, by my own personal beliefs and philosophies you have acted so at least - I don't feel any connection with you to drive a need to be inclusive with you.
I find your attitudes and opinions to be reprehensible, and I'm not going to play nice and talk about your allergies and gloss over the fact that you failed to not be racist.
I'm also not going to apologize for that to anyone else, either. It has been said that I have personally attacked you on this front, by saying that you sicken me.
Well, you sicken me. Not going to candy-coat that. I'm going to call you on it. And I'm going to explain my position about it.
You and everyone else can make of that what they will.
I do want to be clear that I wish you no ill will, and that I do not hate you, or have any particular feeling about you of any kind for that matter. I merely consider you here, in this thread, on this board, to be a failure. You failed at not being racist. It disgusts me (in the same way other people I see in the news whom I don't know and otherwise have no connection to disgust me - in that abstract failure-of-humanity way).
And ultimately I don't expect you care what I think or feel about you.
Why? Because ultimately, I'm no different to you than you are to me. Lines of text on a message board with a name attached.
In real life, though, I trust and encourage you to never fail. I also trust that there are those in your life who know and love and respect you who will lift you up when you do fail, help you to see where you have, and support you as you work to ensure you don't fail again. |
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 7
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To answer Michael's question - hating a white person
because they're white is bigotry.It would be racism if some race, as a whole, were oppressing
the white race as a whole. Which, based on our current
structure, isn't possible.
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Jason Mark Hickok
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 February 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10472
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 8
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Mike - Does it really matter? Bigotry and Racism are essentially hand in hand. If you are either of these you are essentially a worthless piece of shit in my book.
Now to say that I am not attacking you. In my opinion if you hate a different race because they are a different race then you are a racist.
In the end like I said it doesn't matter what you really call them because they are ignorant pieces of crap.
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Mike Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 851
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 9
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But Mike, by that definition, an individual could not be a racist.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 10
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Yes, Mike, I do believe that. Or, to be more specific, I believe that
all whites, benefit from racism, so all whites are, by default, racist.Not all whites are bigots, however, and many non-whites are
bigots.
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Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 10:09am | IP Logged | 11
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Okay Mike...I think I get what you are saying...It's my take that the act of oppression, or loss of rights, based on race is racism, regardless of point of origin...
I am white guy who went to an almost all all black school...bussed across town in fact. There were moments, although not that many, of straight up racial oppression practiced by the teachers and admins in that school against the few white kids there.
So is that bigotry or racism...my take is racist.
I also agree that people who practice bigotry or racism are crap and should be called out for their behavior ,and either educated, or shamed as is appropriate.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 12
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I don't think that came out right. All whites benefit from racism, and
thus are part of a racist system.
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Topic Closed)
